The Job You Bring Is The Job You Keep

[jimntx]

I wouldn't be surprised, however, since US says if I'm called back I'll be at my 2.5 year pay rate, then I'll likely be at my 2.5 date of senioity.

FWIW, that's the way it is at AA. My "hire date" and my "occupational seniority" and my original "bidding seniority" date are 07SEP2000. However, I was furloughed from 02JUL2003 until 17NOV2004. When I returned, I was at the same pay rate as when I left (3rd year step) and my bidding seniority date was changed to 24JAN2002. I did not accrue bidding seniority while on furlough.

However, I just got my gold wings (which you get at 5 years). Seems gold wings are awarded based on occupational seniority which in my case is still 07SEP2000. :huh:

 

[goodgirl37]

Well imagine this! A furloughed US F/A who worked 6 months as a flight attendant and got furloughed for 5 years and an ACTIVE HP Flight Attendant who has been active for 4 years (obviously the HP Flight attendants has more experience, but less years of seniority) Do you really think it's FAIR for a Furloughed US F/A who has 6 months experience as a Flight Attendant to get 5 1/2 years and bump the 4 year HP Flight Attendant? I think NOT !

What is that??? 6 months experience doesn't count as 5 1/2 years of service and experience!

[post="305490"][/post]​

Let me just say this to you - I knew how to do my job the day i got out of training and I still do even on furlough and I bet I can do it just as good if not better than someone who has been there for 5 years - If you need five years experience then you don't need to be in that job - it isnt a PhD or anything - LOL!!!! Yes I was hired in 2000 and if we aren't slotted in at our seniority then we will tack that onto the lawsuit we already have!!

 

[goodgirl37]

FWIW, that's the way it is at AA. My "hire date" and my "occupational seniority" and my original "bidding seniority" date are 07SEP2000. However, I was furloughed from 02JUL2003 until 17NOV2004. When I returned, I was at the same pay rate as when I left (3rd year step) and my bidding seniority date was changed to 24JAN2002. I did not accrue bidding seniority while on furlough.

However, I just got my gold wings (which you get at 5 years). Seems gold wings are awarded based on occupational seniority which in my case is still 07SEP2000. :huh:

[post="305578"][/post]​

Yes we do not accrue longevity for pay purposes however no one was hired at AA or merged in with dates of hire between the time you were furlughed and the time that you came back - so that is not the case at USAir they are wanting to merge in peoples seniority by DOH and that is the way that it should be furloughed or not...

 

[traderjake]

You must be out of your mind and a TRADER!!  I was furloughed in 2002 and still am -  I am senior to anyone who started after me - furloghed or not!!!  When I come back I will go in at my seniority!!!  Remember AWA can't hire anyone after tuesday -  we will be one company and if are furloughees are recalled we will get our DOH in the end - it is only fair - I started five years ago and if you think I am giving that up,  well,  you are sadly mistaken!!!

[post="305317"][/post]​

You don't work here and you think you're senior to someone who does?

How is that fair?

What exactly are you giving up? Not working here for 3 years?

 

[PITbull]

It will all end up in front of a arbitrator and will probably end up DOH for active employees and all furloughed people will end up on the bottom.

[post="305499"][/post]​

An arbitrator can not violate the CBA. U contract has furloughed f/as still on the U roster accruing seniority for bidding purposes, not longevity. It speaks to furloughs and is not silent on continued accural of seniority.

In addition, AFA has the policy which states, DOH.

In the AWA contract, a furloughee ALSO accrues seniority for bidding purposes sec.21-1.

So, I it begs the question...how can someone assume that an arbitrator would decide to paste furloughees at the bottom of the seniority list and that furloughees should not accrue seniority while on furlough, when the same furlough seniority accruing language exists in the HP contract for HP f/as IF they were furloughed?

I find this assumption pretty slanted.

 

[ClueByFour]

I find it astounding that someone gains seniority while furloughed. I'm further shocked that (if recalled eventually from the U side of things) that employee can vault over existing employees who brought a job to the merger.

I know it's in the contract. I'm just suprised that anyone in their right mind can call it "fair" with a straight face.

 

[AP Tech]

Most did not asked to get furloughed, it happened!! Contract states they had "x" number of years of recall rights, so be it.

 

[PITbull]

Clue,

It all relative. That's the point. Those furloughed provided employment for all those who have jobs today.

Folks have this preconception that HP was in great financial shape before any merger. I can personally tell you from the high ups that I spoke with from both sides, that without merger partner, there would be no investors lured, no investor money and both companies would be on the cliff. U closer to that cliff than HP by year's end.

HP and U have this furough language in their contracts on accrual of seniority while on furlough. Now that there is a merger, its all of a sudden profoundly unfair?

U happens to be the airline that sacrificed 3 concessions and 7,500 folks on furlough to keep the airline floating. Otherwise there would have been no investors.

So what now? We punish the folks that went out on furlough by arbitrarily changing the CBA.

To safisfy whom exactly? AFA is guided by the policies that are set and the contract language that was negotiated.

Best way to decide this argument is to bring it to the AFA Board who don't have a dog in this fight and let the Board decide whether its fair to change the policy at this juncture. With regard to USAirways CBA and HP, you can't just pluck out the language as if accruing seniority while on furlough has no significance anymore.

 

[Light Years]

US F/As have eternal recall rights, there is no limit.

You need protections like this when the company furloughs OVER 50% of the seniority list.

And like PitBull said, HP F/As have the same protections in thier contract, as well as the AFA DOH by-laws. If they found it all so unfair they had years to change it and put themselves at risk.

 

[PITbull]

Light,

You just made THE point. B)

 

[UseYourHead]

TJ,

I am going on merger number 5 and let me assure you that everyone here is getting worked up over something that you have no control over...let it go, it will be better for your health.

Ya know, the way these events work is that everyone has a scenario that works for them and one that does not. Of course we justify what works for us, and most people will not move off of that position.

There are many ways to merger a lsit, they all have pro's & con's for both sides.

If you are a FA I understand it is date of hire; however, there are other ways (fences, conditions & restrictions) that can even out any inequity in a DOH integration. There are many factors to be looked at...age of the groups, etc. that over time make the list play out different than many think.

Do yourself a favor & relax, all of the viewpoints your reading here are wasted bandwidth.

🙂

The job you bring to the merger is the job you should get after the merger.

Anything else, especially Date of Hire, is a windfall for somebody and is fundamentally unfair.

If your seniority number allows you to hold #1 737 reserve captain before the merger you should hold the same after the merger.

If your seniority number allows you to hold bottom reserve flight attendant before the merger you should hold the same after.

Seniority and longivity are not the same thing.

[post="304146"][/post]​

 

[PITbull]

UYH,

Now this is good advice.

Being that U is a much more senior work force, there are retirments and VFLR in our agreement that will take place over the next two years. Presently, we are at 4,300 f/as. What furloughees return on Dec. 2 will be pretty much zeroed out by the VFLR leaving on Dec. 2. We have another VFLR offer in 2006, plus again retirments monthly.

Why sweat it now? And why should policies and provisions change to fit the environment curretnly, when the integration will take place years from now. The list will look completely and profoundly different in 24 months...

which is reflected and evidenced by the monthly attrition reports.

 

[tahitigirl]

Aren't 200 people leaving in Dec. 2005?

 

[UseYourHead]

I agree PITBull,

Add to that the fact as a pilot I have been through 2 DOH mergers, a slot/relative position and a staple.

In all of them there were tons of people (on both sides) who in some way felt wronged.

The bottomline is that greed takes over in events like this and many folks want something at someone elses expense...on the both sides.

I just wish we could blink and these integrations would be over so that we can all expend our energy moving forward...TOGETHER!

UYH,

Now this is good advice.

Being that U is a much more senior work force, there are retirments and VFLR in our agreement that will take place over the next two years. Presently, we are at 4,300 f/as. What furloughees return on Dec. 2 will be pretty much zeroed out by the VFLR leaving on Dec. 2. We have another VFLR offer in 2006, plus again retirments monthly.

Why sweat it now? And why should policies and provisions change to fit the environment curretnly, when the integration will take place years from now. The list will look completely and profoundly different in 24 months...

which is reflected and evidenced by the monthly attrition reports.

[post="306961"][/post]​

 

[RowUnderDCA]

The bottomline is that greed takes over in events like this and many folks want something at someone elses expense...on the both sides.

[post="306968"][/post]​

And these folks are much more likely to post on a internet bb.