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Things AA "can" afford

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Just walked into the breakroom here at DFW term and there's a big yellow cake with "go steelers" across it. I asked who brought it in and was told management did.... Funny, we have guys celebrating 20, 25 and 30 years with the company and can't even get a handshake.



I got a half cut into cake for 20 years, 4 1/2 hours late of course after lunch.The posted so called celebration was to be a 2:30 pm. At almost 7 oclock it showed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After I was completely pissed off.......and did I mention my 15 year was skipped......
 
Pops goes the airline
American Airlines will treat JFK to live classical music

American Airlines passengers at John F. Kennedy International Airport might soon feel uplifted even before they take off: Starting in April, they will be treated to live classical music performances by The New York Pops.

The concerts are just part of a three-year partnership agreement to be announced this week, which is the most extensive sponsorship in the 28-year-old orchestra's history. Though American Airlines sponsors a number of local arts institutions—it recently renewed its agreement with the Roundabout Theatre Company—the seven-figure deal with the Pops goes deeper.

Many of American's domestic and international flights will feature two-hour radio broadcasts of the orchestra playing favorite New York tunes. Airline employees will be encouraged to volunteer for the Pops' local music-education programs. And the airline will help underwrite Pops tours, something the orchestra hasn't been able to undertake lately due to a lack of funds; one tour is tentatively planned for Florida.

Nice to know that our sacrifices are being used to entertain a bunch of stuffed shirts not only in New York, with the help of Art Torno, the guy who lives four blocks away from his Manhattan office and expects his workers to show up regardless of the conditions because "we got a business to run", but they are sending the Pops to Florida as well. Well that should make it much easier to tell your child you cant afford to send them to college because your employer needs that money to sponsor the arts for the rich right?

We cant ask for a raise supposedly because AA isnt making a profit but that doesnt stop them from dumping seven figures into things that have absolutely nothing to do with the business they need to run.
 
Nice to know that our sacrifices are being used to entertain a bunch of stuffed shirts not only in New York, with the help of Art Torno, the guy who lives four blocks away from his Manhattan office and expects his workers to show up regardless of the conditions because "we got a business to run", but they are sending the Pops to Florida as well. Well that should make it much easier to tell your child you cant afford to send them to college because your employer needs that money to sponsor the arts for the rich right?

We cant ask for a raise supposedly because AA isnt making a profit but that doesnt stop them from dumping seven figures into things that have absolutely nothing to do with the business they need to run.

I'm not defending this particular expenditure, but I will say that those "stuffed shirts" that you seem to love disparaging are the ones who pay the ridiculous F fares that keep AA going. Try to keep that in mind next time you're railing against us.
 
I'm not defending this particular expenditure, but I will say that those "stuffed shirts" that you seem to love disparaging are the ones who pay the ridiculous F fares that keep AA going. Try to keep that in mind next time you're railing against us.

I'd be willing to bet a disproportionate number of them also own condos or timeshares in the islands...
 
The money for the NY Pops program that's made Bob Owens seething mad is part of the advertising expense budget, and for good or bad, that budget has taken a serious hit (Concessions) since the pre-September, 2001 boom years.

Here's AMR's total advertising expenditures for the past 12 years:

1998: . . . . $196 million
1999: . . . . $206 million
2000: . . . . $221 million
2001: . . . . $202 million
2002: . . . . $161 million
2003: . . . . $150 million
2004: . . . . $146 million
2005: . . . . $146 million
2006: . . . . $154 million
2007: . . . . $162 million
2008: . . . . $153 million
2009: . . . . $153 million

In a couple of weeks the 2010 10-K should be filed and we can see what AMR spent on advertising last year. My guess is probably about what it spent in 2008 and 2009. This year, probably more of the same. AA has been pretty frugal on ad spending IMO.

I'm not a marketing expert (of course, neither is Bob Owens) but I think that complaining about individual components of AA's marketing budget is just goofy. Especially the part about "this is why AA can't pay us raises." That's just nonsensical.
 
The chart you posted is a picture perfect example of how management capped spending in non-labor categories.

Put into language the union guys will understand: the advertising budget took a 25% paycut.

And this line doesn't include the corresponding headcount cuts that all the useless management personnel working in marketing probably took, resulting in 100% paycuts and no rehire rights.
 
The chart you posted is a picture perfect example of how management capped spending in non-labor categories.

Put into language the union guys will understand: the advertising budget took a 25% paycut.

And this line doesn't include the corresponding headcount cuts that all the useless management personnel working in marketing probably took, resulting in 100% paycuts and no rehire rights.

Just think..If they had a union they would have had recall rights!
 
The money for the NY Pops program that's made Bob Owens seething mad is part of the advertising expense budget, and for good or bad, that budget has taken a serious hit (Concessions) since the pre-September, 2001 boom years.

Here's AMR's total advertising expenditures for the past 12 years:

1998: . . . . $196 million
1999: . . . . $206 million
2000: . . . . $221 million
2001: . . . . $202 million
2002: . . . . $161 million
2003: . . . . $150 million
2004: . . . . $146 million
2005: . . . . $146 million
2006: . . . . $154 million
2007: . . . . $162 million
2008: . . . . $153 million
2009: . . . . $153 million

In a couple of weeks the 2010 10-K should be filed and we can see what AMR spent on advertising last year. My guess is probably about what it spent in 2008 and 2009. This year, probably more of the same. AA has been pretty frugal on ad spending IMO.

I'm not a marketing expert (of course, neither is Bob Owens) but I think that complaining about individual components of AA's marketing budget is just goofy. Especially the part about "this is why AA can't pay us raises." That's just nonsensical.

Really? A big hit? Well from your figures since we took our hit, in 2003, they've increased spending by $3 million, despite the fact that they have 30% fewer seats to fill and employees to pay. Factor in that the way people buy tickets, lowest price on line, or so I've been told, ("airlines have no pricing power") advertising is pretty much a waste. It would be like the Subway or electric company taking ads to say "use our service".

Are you sure that sponsorships or charitable contributions are included in their advertising figures?
 
I'm not a marketing expert (of course, neither is Bob Owens) but I think that complaining about individual components of AA's marketing budget is just goofy. Especially the part about "this is why AA can't pay us raises." That's just nonsensical.

The way I see it is this.....I don't believe AA should stop advertising or whatever they require to operate a business...But for years now, AA has been demanding a ZERO cost contract.....When they keep preaching about how they cannot afford raises, then guess what????????????? You can't afford anything...INCLUDING advertising!

When it comes to labor, they can't afford this and they can't afford that....But when it comes to advertising and other little "incidentals" like executive compensation,,,the response is usually...."Oh, the company NEEDS these things to compete, blah blah blah."

Can't have it both ways.
 
Really? A big hit? Well from your figures since we took our hit, in 2003, they've increased spending by $3 million, despite the fact that they have 30% fewer seats to fill and employees to pay. Factor in that the way people buy tickets, lowest price on line, or so I've been told, ("airlines have no pricing power") advertising is pretty much a waste. It would be like the Subway or electric company taking ads to say "use our service".

Interesting (and, IMO, extremely myopic) perspective.

Ad spending was $221 million in the year 2000, prior to the purchase of the TWA assets, so in 2000, AA was a much smaller airline than in 2001. Nevertheless, the year of the purchase, 2001, ad spending declined to $202 million even though the airline had grown significantly. Ad contracts aren't subject to the RLA, so decreasing spending can be done more easily than cutting your pay, so in 2002, ad spending declined to $161 million. The ad budget's concessions happened before yours. In 2003, the year AA imposed pay concessions on you, ad spending was down to $150 million. That's a cut of almost a third from the pre-TWA purchase ad budget from the year 2000. And since then, the spending has varied a little but appears to have clustered around about $153 million.

Of course, the primary reason for the huge increase in ad spending in 2000 was the announcement of More Room Throughout Coach in January, 2000.

So your point is that because management cut ad spending before it cut your pay, the baseline against which today's ad budget must be measured is the 2003 ad budget? By that backward logic, you would give management more credit had ad spending not been cut until AA cut your pay? Executives cut their own pay in Sept-Dec of 2001 (Carty took no paychecks in that period and others agreed to much lower pay). So management frugality before AA slashed your pay gets no credit from you?

Maybe you're right - maybe ad spending by airlines is wasted money. If it is, I've gotta wonder why Southwest's ad spending as a proportion of their revenue has far outpaced AA's ad spending for that entire 12 year period. WN's management is usually held up a much smarter bunch of execs - so if anything, I fault AA for cutting spending as much as it did.

Are you sure that sponsorships or charitable contributions are included in their advertising figures?

No, I'm not 100% certain, but I am fairly confident that sponsorships are included in the ad spending total. The NY Pops issue isn't a charitable contribution.

Excellent question to ask of AA executives when the 10-K is released in the next few days. Bella Goren should be able to answer that.
 
The way I see it is this.....I don't believe AA should stop advertising or whatever they require to operate a business...But for years now, AA has been demanding a ZERO cost contract.....When they keep preaching about how they cannot afford raises, then guess what????????????? You can't afford anything...INCLUDING advertising!

I may be wrong, but AA's position is that it wants to increase your wages (slightly) but wants to pay for those raises by paying fewer people, resulting in a zero cost (to AA) contract. Of course you don't like that, but given that AA's passengers paid less per mile on average in 2010 than they did 10 years before, I don't see AA's position as all that unreasonable.

AA's mainline yield in 2000 was 14.06 cents and its PRASM was 10.18 cents. Load factor was 72.4% and fuel cost 78 cents/gal.

In 2010, 10 years later, AA's mainline yield was only 13.36 cents and PRASM was 10.94 cents. Load factor was much higher at 81.6%, leading to the higher PRASM than in 2010. Fuel in 2010 cost $2.31/gal, almost triple the price paid in 2000, leading to a fuel bill $3.9 billion higher in 2010 than in 2000, even though passengers paid, on average, 7/10 of a cent less per mile to fly. Yes, your costs have increased. AA's costs have increased. Everyone's costs have increased, except the cost of flying, for which passengers paid less. Yes, you should get a raise - even a large raise. But exactly from where does the money come?

Very simple math leads to the inescapable conclusion that the pie ain't growing, so individual pay raises will either have to be borrowed or will have to come from the paychecks of soon-to-be ex-co-workers. Either passengers have to pay significantly more to fly or your wage increase will cannibalize the wages of fellow employees.

So AA spends a little bit of money in hopes that it increases revenue - sorta like planting some seed in hopes you can harvest a lot more seeds later - isn't there a Bible passage about that?

AA can afford raises - it just can't afford raises for everyone. To pay for raises, some will have to be thrown overboard or not replaced as they quit, die, retire, etc.

When it comes to labor, they can't afford this and they can't afford that....But when it comes to advertising and other little "incidentals" like executive compensation,,,the response is usually...."Oh, the company NEEDS these things to compete, blah blah blah."

Can't have it both ways.

I don't see it a a "having it both ways" situation. I see AA's execs trying to increase revenue. Maybe advertising doesn't work. Maybe it does. I'm not smart enough to know the answer, and I'm guessing that neither you nor Bob Owens nor anyone else fixing airplanes for AA possesses the data required to know the answer (does AA's advertising expenditures work or not?)

Of course, as you and others have mentioned in the past, AA could take the lazy way out and agree to large raises even though there doesn't appear to be any money with which to pay them and then turn around and file for Ch 11 and abrogate the contracts and probably impose even larger concessions. Since your pensions (and most other nonpilots workgroup's pensions) don't exceed the PBGC limits, termination of the pensions wouldn't really hit you all that hard since the PBGC would pay what you have already accrued, just like at the other airlines. The pilots, on the other hand, stand to lose significant amounts and will probably do whatever it takes to prevent termination of the pensions. Delta's pilots gave pre-bankruptcy concessions of more than $1 billion per year and then gave another round of concessions worth another $350 million per year in hopes of preserving their pensions, but it didn't work, and their pensions were terminated anyway. I expect that at least some of the AA pilots paid close attention to that and will do what it takes to prevent the same thing at AA.
 
I may be wrong, but AA's position is that it wants to increase your wages (slightly) but wants to pay for those raises by paying fewer people, resulting in a zero cost (to AA) contract. Of course you don't like that, but given that AA's passengers paid less per mile on average in 2010 than they did 10 years before, I don't see AA's position as all that unreasonable.



You are partially wrong. They want to increase the wage slightly but extract whatever they give us by pocketing our Prefunding and other concessions, the Headcount savings is just extra, not credited to us. They already pocketed millions from the Supplimental plan they duped employees into buying and then abruptly cancelled. They sold it as supplimental retirement with an addition to the lifetime cap, (which nobody cared about because your odds of winning the lottery were better than you odds of exceeding the lifetime cap) then when they took it away claimed that it was a lifetime cap plan with a supplimental retirement component. From 2003 to 2011 the slight raises brought our hourly pay up a little but the amount they deducted for medical took all of it. I'm a middle aged man with three kids and I paid more into the plan than I got from it, AA made a profit on me. Imagine how well they can do when they start hiring young single people again!

Of course you don't like that, but given that AA's passengers paid less per mile on average in 2010 than they did 10 years before, I don't see AA's position as all that unreasonable.AA's mainline yield in 2000 was 14.06 cents and its PRASM was 10.18 cents. Load factor was 72.4% and fuel cost 78 cents/gal.

In 2010, 10 years later, AA's mainline yield was only 13.36 cents and PRASM was 10.94 cents. Load factor was much higher at 81.6%, leading to the higher PRASM than in 2010. Fuel in 2010 cost $2.31/gal, almost triple the price paid in 2000, leading to a fuel bill $3.9 billion higher in 2010 than in 2000, even though passengers paid, on average, 7/10 of a cent less per mile to fly. Yes, your costs have increased. AA's costs have increased. Everyone's costs have increased, except the cost of flying, for which passengers paid less. Yes, you should get a raise - even a large raise. But exactly from where does the money come?

Nice spin, where should it come from? The reveunue which is up several billion. We are sitting by while everyone else grabs a bigger piece of the pie. We need to grab ours and let everyone else fight over whats left instead of standing last on line and taking whats left. As you said everyones costs go up and evetyone except labor has seen their revenues go up as well.

Are you including all the "fees" that they collect in your figures?



Very simple math leads to the inescapable conclusion that the pie ain't growing, so individual pay raises will either have to be borrowed or will have to come from the paychecks of soon-to-be ex-co-workers. Either passengers have to pay significantly more to fly or your wage increase will cannibalize the wages of fellow employees.

Show us your very simple math and its inescapable conclusion. What I see is a $22 billion pie to be divied up between 80,000 workers vendors etc instead of a $17 billion dollar pie to be divied up between 100,000 workers, vendors etc.. Not only is the pie much bigger but it has to be cut into fewer pieces, that should mean bigger pieces for everyone. What we have seen over the last 8 years is other entities taking much bigger pieces, we have to assert ourselves, if dont produce the pie nobody gets anything.Sure the oil companies have been pigs at the table but they dont accont for all of it, who else is getting a bigger piece than ever before and how is it justified when they are dealing in smaller volumes as well?


Of course, as you and others have mentioned in the past, AA could take the lazy way out and agree to large raises even though there doesn't appear to be any money with which to pay them and then turn around and file for Ch 11 and abrogate the contracts and probably impose even larger concessions.

Doubtful, they are at rock bottom already. We are making less than post BK Delta and twice BK Continental.They exhausted their recall lists , they raised the starting pay and still have to delay maintenence initiatives because they cant get people. People with the skillsets requird arent interested in this industry anymore despite 10% unemployment.
 
People with the skillsets requird arent interested in this industry anymore despite 10% unemployment.

How many of you as a 18-22 year old researched labor contracts and future earnings potential before going to A&P school?

Or did you simply think "wow, this looks cool" and get your A&P?

Bob's probably right that there are a bunch of senior guys leaving the industry, but never underestimate the willingness of people to come into it.

Just as there has never been a shortage of people willing to mop up puke & excrement at the hospitals or train stations, you'll always find someone who is interested in working with complex machinery and/or electronics.

Oh, and by the way, aviation schools advertise, too. That's how they manage to find people willing to pay tuition.

It looks like advertising makes up about 0.6% of AA's cost of sale. I've seen companies spending upward of of 2-3%. Brand recognition helps, but brand stagnation (i.e. not advertising) is usually fatal.
 
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