This, For The If-you-don't-like-it, Leave Guys

diogenes

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Aug 22, 2002
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I would like to addess the "if you don't like it here, leave!" crowd.

That statement is close kin to "my way, or the highway", which is useful in action movies, but folly in real life. And akin to "America, love it, or leave it." I suspect the slaves did not love America, and had no opportunity to leave. I'd guess the Indians, who were here first, were not all that hot on Old Glory, either. Disenfranchised women? Child labor? Exactly how does one go about improving those conditions, if the answer is, Hey if you don't like it, leave?

Do all of you have perfect spouses? Jobs? Parents and siblings? I suspect not. Do you ever have discussions, or initiate a plan of action with your spouse, manager, co-workers, or family to improve things, or do you passively accept whatever they dish out, because you love them?

There is also a note of hypocrisy in the statement. Limbaugh, Gingrich, DeLay, et.al, most certainly did NOT accept the status quo. Guess "if you don't like it, leave", didn't work for them, either.

There is a reason the Founders made freedom of speech the First Amendment. Discussion, debate and disagreement is good (note the alliteration - I'm gonna be a political hack writing bad speeches in my next life!). Moreover, they recognized these three D's describe the human condition, and invented a government that channeled these passions to a beneficial end.

Check out your kid's crayon box - there are more than two colors, black and white, in it. Such is life. If all decisions could be reduced to an either/or, binary proposition, computers really would run the world.

I also take issue with the implication that if one disapproves of Palace actions, one is automatically lazy or incompetent. For hard-headed business-types, one would think you'd understand all about ASS-U-M-ptions.

Let us imagine a richer and more complex reality.

A 25 year agent, who can remember working for the finest airline aloft, and can remember many of his peers senior to him, who have long since comfortably retired.

Who realized, some 10 years ago, U as it was then, and now, operated was not viable. So he hoped for the best (good managment), and prepared for the worst (never bought a brand new car, bought a house much lower than he qualified for, lived modestly). And each day, no matter how much U pissed him off (Business Select, High Ground, MetroJet), his customers never saw it, because he honorably did his job, every day. Because he was raised that way, and believed he could not expect management to do their part, if he did not do his part. Never abused sick leave. Got the flights out on time, in good weather and bad, short-staffed or not, and tried not to make it a cattle call for his customers. Stayed current and knowledgeable about his job.

And now realizes the end is near for his station. On a rational level, he is prepared. On an emotional level, he travels between sadness, denial and rage, enroute to acceptance. He has done his best to keep the stress from spilling over onto his friends. He has explained to his wife the need for some quiet time to dissipate the sadness and anger, and tried his best to stand between 'it', and her.

Why hang on?

He figures he will get screwed out of severance, but there remains a slim chance of getting it. But unemployment will see him thru some education, and give him much needed respite from the workplace for a few months. And in those months, see folks, that due to hectic airline life, he has not seen as much of as he should have. Stop. Smell roses. Let go of U.

And re-enter the fray, renewed.

Perhaps not so irrational, yes?
 
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And that is not a description of one, or a few guys.

There are many guys and gals at U that story covers - pilots, f/a's, mechs and agents, who have kept this airline aloft these many years.

They deserved better.
 
US Airways must be able to compete across-the-board or it will fail, which includes all departments of the company -- that's what cost accounting is all about.

This is no different than any other industry or what happened in the retail and steel industries. Today the LCCs are now the powerhouses and every legacy carrier is failing.

Either US Airways and its employees adjust or the company will fail -- it's really that simple.

If people do not want to adjust than I believe they should leave the airline. Why contribute to the company's failure when there are people in all work groups who are willing to adjust to the new economic reality?

There is no shortage of people willing to work for LCC or RJ pay and benefits as witnessed by their skyrocketing growth. Thus, I believe those who do not want to participate in the "Transformation Plan" should quit and let those who do want to work under the new business plan be permitted to build the company into the best airline in the world.

Nobody likes the reality we face, but with the opportunity to talk with people from different departments in different cities, I am convinced the majority of employees support the new business plan.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. The company is going to lower its unit costs one way or another and in a recent SEC filing the airline indicated it may pursue a "judicial restructuring" or another Chapter 11 bankruptcy. If true than I suspect any employee group who does not participate in the new business plan can explain to the bankruptcy court with S.1113 and S.1114 motions filed aginst their union, why they do not deserve deeper cuts than could have been negotiated before bankruptcy.

It seems as if United and its unions understand that point all to well. (See Story)

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
 
diogenes:

Your posts are well thought out and presented. Thank you for clearly articulating your views.

I am not a US Airways employee, but I am sure that your presentation represents the feelings and experiences of many.

A couple of notes:

1. The "take-it-or-leave-it" crowd believes that those who believe the company's end is near are working "against the team" trying to save it. I am sure, and you can confirm, that this is not the case. Realizing the end is near does not mean that you don't hold out hope, work hard, treat the customer well. It only affects the choices you make in your personal and professional lives, the ones you have so eloquently outlined.

Pilots are trained to fly the aircraft to the ground, not matter the outcome when you get there. The idea being that there is no hope for survival if you panic at 35,000 ft with an emergency, but if you can fly the aircraft down through the emergency, then something good (or at least "less bad") may happen when you reach the ground. The UAL DC-10 incident at Sioux City, IA is a shining example of this principle. The "take-it-or-leave-it" crowd isn't smart enough or doesn't trust people to understand this concept.

2. The "take-it-or-leave-it" crowd, it seems to me, fails to recognize the enormous job loss in the airline industry (90,000 jobs lost since 9/11), and in the economy overall. While I am sure some folks have resigned themselves to the fact that US Airways is in deep trouble, and may likely fail, or furlough a lot more on its way to success, these folks forget that new job opportunities are not that plentiful. So even if you are looking for a new job or training, or whatever, that doesn't mean you will find a new position before the end comes. People have to pay the bills through a transition. The "take-it-or-leave-it" crowd forgets this rather personal truth.

3. This industry has been through this cycle before. But never before has this cycle been accompanied by the level of competition, the fuel prices, the soft demand, and the terrorist threat that we are experiencing today. Even five years ago, much of what has happened since 2001 seemed unimaginable. Certainly, we are all aware of the cyclic nature of this industry, but certain things were unforseen, even though we may have known on some levels about the rise of the LCC's, potential for domestic terror, etc. The "take-it-or-leave-it" folks seem to forget how recently all of this seemed unlikely.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You did it well.

Best of luck to all...
 
USA320Pilot said:
Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
Mr. Captain DELETED…My Man Dio starts a well-presented topic that paints a picture of the U employee in a well thought out manner, sort of put into perspective the plight of each employee as a living thinking rational human being. Then you for some strange reason feel absolutely compelled to come on here yet again and present the same old worn out mantra we all know by heart, it’s no different then pouring acid on the kids toys and watch them cry while you are screaming at them to get their homework done or else face the devil.
 
You also fail to tell them that the judge in the UAL case would not impose what UAL filed in their 1114 motion as the Judge told UAL they did not negotiate in good faith and ordered UAL to go back to the table with the IAM, ALPA and AFA and then a consensual agreement was reached.

This was reported to us by AGC Bill Carman of DL 141 of the IAM last night at a union meeting.
 
USA320Pilot ,

Feel free to give more since you will have to make up for what I am supposed to give. I am keeping what little I have.
 
diogenes said:
..."if you don't like it here, leave!"... is close kin to "my way, or the highway"...
Yes, it sure is. Because there are some things you can change, and some things you cannot.
I suspect the slaves did not love America, and had no opportunity to leave.
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that these people aren't actually employees, but are rather being held in involuntary servitude in violation of the 14th Amendment. I guess someone should press charges!

Disenfranchised women? Child labor? Exactly how does one go about improving those conditions, if the answer is, Hey if you don't like it, leave?
US Airways is not the US Government, and thus is not subject to the US Consitution. As a result, US Airways is not a democracy, and its leadership is not elected by the employees. The system is different, and to treat it as if it were the same is ludicrous.

Do you ever have discussions, or initiate a plan of action with your spouse, manager, co-workers, or family to improve things, or do you passively accept whatever they dish out, because you love them?
So you do what you can. You tell management what you think they need to hear. But if you have a spouse that refuses to listen and abuses you daily, your obligation at that point is to divorce, not keep talking and hope it gets better.

I also take issue with the implication that if one disapproves of Palace actions, one is automatically lazy or incompetent.
So do I. Who suggested such a thing here? I don't recall ever seeing such a post.

[deleted, but good, story]...He figures he will get screwed out of severance, but there remains a slim chance of getting it. But unemployment will see him thru some education, and give him much needed respite from the workplace for a few months.
So if I understand you correctly, what it all boils down to is this:
Vote no so you can get the company to Chapter 7 faster, so you can collect unemployment sooner, so you can get on with your life.
Is that an accurate interpretation?

funguy2 said:
The "take-it-or-leave-it" crowd, it seems to me, fails to recognize the enormous job loss in the airline industry (90,000 jobs lost since 9/11), and in the economy overall.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pretty painfully aware of what has happened to the economy since early 2000. So your broad brush stroke misses me.

This industry has been through this cycle before. But never before has this cycle been accompanied by the level of competition, the fuel prices, the soft demand, and the terrorist threat that we are experiencing today.
Very true. Though you follow it with a suggestion that nobody could have predicted that it would be this bad. That part isn't true. There are quite a few people who saw the writing on the wall in the late 90s, myself included. In 2000, I remember posting on the UA section of PlaneBusiness, suggesting to many of their employees that this precise outcome was coming, and coming soon. I was scoffed at, of course. But if you look at historical business cycles, every single indicator was pointing as clearly as possible to nearly this exact future (granted, minus the overrated [imo] 9/11 effect).
 
Cav:

It serves no useful purpose to shut the company down and 80% (or whatever the number) is better than nothing for most people, regardless of the job classification. If not than you would not have furloughed employees working at JetBlue, AirTran, MDA, or a RJ operator. In fact, 80% of the current mainline US Airways pay and benefits for all work groups is still higher than the LCC's or RJ operators.

The marketplace determines what you, I, and every other employee works. Do you think the small business owner who operates an ice cream shop can afford to pay her employees more than the ice cream shop down the street and still produce a profit?

Industry fundamentals continue to deteriorate. The skyrocketing price of fuel will add $220 million over budget and revenue is under attack with Internet booking and the powerful LCC competitors and new companies like Virgin USA.

For example, yesterday in a research report Lehman Brothers wrote, "investors worry about the potential impact of Virgin USA on JetBlue, but few appreciate the potential impact a well executed Virgin product could have on the legacy carriers, especially American, Continental, Delta, and United. Virgin USA has a long way to go; hurdles to overcome are significant, and establishing a successful U.S. airline will not be easy, even for Virgin. However, we think it unwise to underestimate the potential threat to the carriers we follow. If press reports and our industry sources are accurate, Virgin USA will target some of the largest cities in the country. Routes likely to include the largest transcon markets (as if we needed more pain there) and other routes of high importance to the majors. Given economic and branding considerations, expect an 'upscale' product offering that targets high-end passengers along with more typical economy product. Entry likely to roil the transcontinental markets further; investors worry about JetBlue with its heavy transcon exposure, but if Virgin attracts a large portion of premium passengers, impact on the majors could be substantial. Potential Virgin threat is another example of the pricing challenges the majors will face in the years ahead."

Cav, is it US Airways management's fault that costs are rising and yeild is under pressure by new and brash companies?

Either US Airways and its employees adjust or the airline will enter bankruptcy. Will it be Chapter 11 or 7? I do not know, but I believe those who are in denial should quit and let those who want to remain and work at US Airways in this environment do so.

I suspect the majority of the unions will reach new labor accords in the not-so-distant future and those who do not will have to take their chances in front of the bankruptcy court. Then in my opinion the court could order deeper cuts than could have been negotiated before the hearing, therefore, for any union that elects to not participate in the new business plan I suggest its members get their financial house in order to be ready for such eventuality.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
USA320Pilot said:
Cav, is it US Airways management's fault that costs are rising and yeild is under pressure by new and brash companies?
I'm not cav, but geez you really miss the point there, don't you?

It may not be US Airways management's fault that the market changed, but it sure as hell is their fault that the airline hasn't changed to meet the changing market conditions. UA may be in serious trouble, but they've at least been making a serious attempt at changing the business to meet the new market. So has AA. DL is trying, too. Why on earth has it taken two years for the first baby steps of change to show up at US????
 
320,

According to the PIT Post Gazzette US wants $41 million from utility alone, that is elimination of the 900+ classification, what incentive is there for those 900 employees to give concessions?

You just don't get it!
 
A320Pilot... unless and until the company comes to the table with a serious offer to buy-out the senior folks, and give them a decent retirement, the unequivocol response of every union needs to be NO TALKS. Are you so blind that you don't see the reason our labor costs are a higher percentage than LCCs is because we have a senior workforce and that because so many aircraft and flights have been cut that the senior wages can't be sustained with the route structure? I, too, realize that the company needs to lower costs. But it has come to labor twice. Labor has told the company, in no uncertain terms, that it would welcome a decent offer for senior people to leave. If Lakefield doesn't realize that in order to lower labor wages, he needs to make an offer to topped out people and bring back the furlougees, then he needs to go the way Siegel did.

Don't give me graphs, charts, and power point presentations. We ain't buyin' in no more! Let the senior people retire, let the junior people come back, return aircraft to flying, keep the planes in the air longer and away from the gate less. That's how this airline will make money. Not through yet another extortion of its employees.

If employees give again, where will it end? We're talking round four, then round five. And you will continue spouting your "if you don't like it, leave" rhetoric until the guys senior to you are flying so much that they are topping out, and you personally are bumped back to three stripes or out the door. Then you will be ready to fight.

Time to draw the line in the sand. If this management is serious about turning the airline around, they need to show labor how they will do it, including labor and non-labor cuts. They need to lower the seniority level and bring back lower-paid furloughees.

Respectfully,
DCAflyer
 
mweiss,

Please tell me why do you honestly care if the employees vote this down or chose not to negotiate?
 

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