The sale of one or two WO's was predicted over six months ago. My only question is: What does Mesa and Johnny Oreinstein have to gain?
Trouble at Alleghany?
- Thread starter MarkMyWords
- Start date
There is much in play on the RJ, "wholly owned", Mesa, and affiliate front. There are to many options and to many players to accurately predict what will occur.
Time is running short and if US Airways emerges and remains independent, turboprops will likely be eliminated in 3 to 5 years. MDA will become a big player and I suspect PSA with their J4J deal will be a player as well, unless a better offer is recieved.
Here's what I do know:
1. US Airways currently holds RJ delivery positions.
2. The Company is going to place a 200 RJ order with 300 options.
3. GECAS has agreed to finance US Airways RJ expansion and hold 50 EMB-175 delivery positions with 78 options.
4. MDA cannot begin operations during bankruptcy.
5. No airline will get expanded RJ code share authority unless they sign on to J4J.
Chip
Time is running short and if US Airways emerges and remains independent, turboprops will likely be eliminated in 3 to 5 years. MDA will become a big player and I suspect PSA with their J4J deal will be a player as well, unless a better offer is recieved.
Here's what I do know:
1. US Airways currently holds RJ delivery positions.
2. The Company is going to place a 200 RJ order with 300 options.
3. GECAS has agreed to finance US Airways RJ expansion and hold 50 EMB-175 delivery positions with 78 options.
4. MDA cannot begin operations during bankruptcy.
5. No airline will get expanded RJ code share authority unless they sign on to J4J.
Chip
What I like about posts on here is that nobody filters their perception of events to match their own designs...[
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First off, why sell just one or two, why would you not think that all three are up for sale (because you prefer to think your own is not...?)
Allegheny is probably up for sale, in fact Im betting on it. But news flash, so is PDT and PSA. With MDA, US Airways Group no longer needs the remaining wholly owneds and can scarce afford the capital to re-equip each carrier with new RJ's.
Do I think John Ornstein is involved, sure. But that doesnt necessarily mean Mesa Air Group. Although I would love Mesa to purchase us (because our section one language would kick in to force a merger with their pilot list), I think it is more likely that he is partnered with Mr Davis (who does have the capital to re-equip the carriers with RJ's) on something independent of Mesa.
So unless Mr Munn has something concrete to report, or an real announcement is made, all we can do is wait and see what will come next (for all three of us).
peace[:bigsmile:]
] First off, why sell just one or two, why would you not think that all three are up for sale (because you prefer to think your own is not...?)
Allegheny is probably up for sale, in fact Im betting on it. But news flash, so is PDT and PSA. With MDA, US Airways Group no longer needs the remaining wholly owneds and can scarce afford the capital to re-equip each carrier with new RJ's.
Do I think John Ornstein is involved, sure. But that doesnt necessarily mean Mesa Air Group. Although I would love Mesa to purchase us (because our section one language would kick in to force a merger with their pilot list), I think it is more likely that he is partnered with Mr Davis (who does have the capital to re-equip the carriers with RJ's) on something independent of Mesa.
So unless Mr Munn has something concrete to report, or an real announcement is made, all we can do is wait and see what will come next (for all three of us).
peace[:bigsmile:]
Wouldn't it be more efficient to combine ALL USAir Express ops under one unit, with J4J and flow-through similar to what CAL had with their Express?
Certainly seniority issues could be worked out fairly, i.e. in such a manner so that no one is happy.
Certainly seniority issues could be worked out fairly, i.e. in such a manner so that no one is happy.
I agree with you, 1 company would be best and could be done rather easily (relativly). But unfortunetely U managements plans are probably far and away different than what we have been told. There are reasons the WO's cant see the books or the reoganization plan that Mineta has sealed in DC. Of all the options available if any of it was any good at all for the WO's management would have given a hint or two and we all would have signed on the dotted line the first day. I realize management cant reveal all and that is not what I'm suggesting. But I am saying that it is not as we are being told. To think otherwise is just fanstasy. There is even a guy on this board that thinks he will be doing proving runs in an RJ in 4 to 5 weeks. That is really good considering there are no airplanes or training available to try and fly them. The TA does not effect a contract carrier the way it will kill the WO's Example: If you are "joes airline" and you have 2 RJ's and you sign J4J, it is true that any "ADDITIONAL" aircraft you get will be half ML guys. But at a WO's the word additional is the same as replacement. This is a raw deal, so much so that only 1 airline in the entire country has bought into it. (Yes I am very aware of the ex TA's at the other 2 WO's wich is a whole other story) The only people who like this deal are ML pilots, management has to go along if they ever expect to get scope relief. I degress, bottom line, in my opinion is the WO's are gone and U will be next just as soon as "Dave" can work out the deal.
News Flash... Why would PSA having completed their JFJ agreement first mean they will not be sold as well...
Because Dave "likes" PSA better?
Cmon, I know it is fun for you to daydream about hundreds of RJ's arriving at PSA next week, but lets stick to reality and wait until everything hashes out to see what is really going to happen.
I assure you that all of this is far from over...
Peace
Because Dave "likes" PSA better?
Cmon, I know it is fun for you to daydream about hundreds of RJ's arriving at PSA next week, but lets stick to reality and wait until everything hashes out to see what is really going to happen.
I assure you that all of this is far from over...
Peace
I don't know if Dave "likes" any of the WO's or wants any of them to even fly RJs. But as Chip has said, unless there are major changes only the airlines with a J4J agreement or MDA will get more RJs. The only dreaming is that the flow through to mainline will ever take place, which with 1,500 furloughed mainline pilots infront of the line it would probably be around 2010 before the first WO pilot could flow to mainline, most likely by then MDA will be spun off and the flow through will be non-exsistent.
What is this talk about 2 of the WO's having the TA pulled back by U. As far as I know only ALG has had the TA recinded by U. PDT's TA is still in place, I thought? Does anyone know more about this??
dasher
Member
Lets face it, all the WO's have signed J4J. Except U has pulled out of two for succesorship language. This is a non economic item. Not a part of cost restructuring and nor should it be. We gave and gave to be a part of the restructuring. No other entity should be able to buy our cheap labor. We participated in a meaningful restructuring plan to be a part of saving U group. Our sacrafices are wholly for that purpose. Not to save Orenstien or his buddies cash. I'm just waiting for the judge to enact our sorry TA with the successorship clause intact. Then maybe we can move forward. I probably would have voted "no" anyway with out gaurantees of growth rather than replacements and furloughs.
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