Tucson

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

Question for those who might be "in the know": Why do we only serve TUS with Mesa 50-seaters to PHX (and one non-stop to LAS-also on Mesa)? The following all offer mainline service: Northwest has non-stops to MSP and MEM, American has non-stops to DFW and ORD, Delta has non-stops to SLC and ATL, United has non-stops to IAD, DEN, LAX, SFO, and ORD, jetBlue has non-stops to JFK. Can an Arizona-based airline not connect a city of nearly 700,000 people (IN ARIZONA!!) to its other hubs when all the other carriers do?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Cost of everything, value of nothing. That's the only explanation for the madness. Pulling mainline out o TUS never made sense. But what the heck - within a year of pulling mainline, SWA grew by 40% in TUS.

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

^Tragically, I thought that was what I would hear.

Still, I can't help but wonder if Tempe just hates the thought of serving the home of the University of Arizona...not to mention the fact that Pima County is Blue and Maricopa is Red. Two places could not be more dissimilar.

 

[SegmentKing]

actually most of the flights are Mesa CRJ - 900s. I'd expect with the e190s there could be some hope for a Tucson - Charlotte run.

 

[EMBFA]

Not sure if the E190 could make CLT-TUS full... the E170 maybe, I think the smaller in the family the longer the range. Those jets would be great for stuff like that though. CLT- AUS, ELP, ABQ, COS, TUS. They don't seem real interested in connecting the two networks though or opening new markets. He's all about reducing capacity.

 

[JetMonkey]

I'm a TUS guy so I can fill in some imput from what I know. SegmentKing is right it'll mostly the crj-900's that go outta here and they are FULL all the time, "TUS is crazy" is what the gate agents say. Kirby stuck his head in the cockpit about a year ago on one of my flights and I point blank asked him "Hey what's the deal putting 14 rj flts. a day outta TUS?" he proceded to give this song and dance story about how TUS is your classic "regional market" and when we flew mainline in there the company was loosing $600,000 per month, and now with mesa doing all the flying, the company now makes $300,000 a month. About 3 months after that, we started flying a 319 once a day down here, then during the hollidays they bumped it up to two mainline flts per day. So then I said to myself, "alright, now finally we're getting somewhere". Then after the hollidays, they dropped it back down to one 319 a day, then the unthinkable happened at the beginning of this month (MAY) they took away the 319 and replaced it with...are you ready for this...a dash 8. When one of the TUS agents told me this I couldn't believe it. How in the hell do you go from 124 seats all the way down to 37? Pima county is actually over a million people now as of last fall, and the city has ALWAYS complained to AWA about using larger aircraft to PHX but it just seems to fall on deaf ears. All those other carriers who have mainline flights to TUS also do use rj's so it wouldn't be fair not to mention that, but we're the only legacy airline to use rj's on ALL flts. American is actually unique, they NEVER use rj's to TUS, it's all mainline. Maybe because they were the first airline to fly into TUS back in 1927, must be a pride thing for them I suppose. Anyway, there you have it in a nutshell. The people at the TUS station has reapeditly told the company they need larger aircraft, not only for our passengers but regularly United and some of the other carriers often ask if they can put paxs and cargo onto our flts. but because of the aircraft type, they simply can't. That's lost revenue folks! Our staff down here is tops, they work their butts off everyday. Not only do they handle all our 13 flts to PHX and 2 to LAS but they handle all the Continental flts as well. My hats off to each of them, they are trully an asset to the company.

 

[Elevation]

Tus is a 25 min flight from Phx it should be all RJ's with good freq and have a good company do it instead of mesa. Airlines will be competeing with cars on this route just like Den-Cos, Lax-San or Ord-Mke all RJ's or props.

 

[Itestwell]

American is actually unique, they NEVER use rj's to TUS, it's all mainline. Maybe because they were the first airline to fly into TUS back in 1927, must be a pride thing for them I suppose. Anyway, there you have it in a nutshell. The people at the TUS station has reapeditly told the company they need larger aircraft, not only for our passengers but regularly United and some of the other carriers often ask if they can put paxs and cargo onto our flts. but because of the aircraft type, they simply can't.

Airlines build their schedules around "pride"? If that were the case, PIT would still be our largest hub, with 21 flights a day to major European cities. It is not.

Flights are full? He!!, flights were full PHL- SNA, PIT-FRA, BOS-TPA/PBI/FLL/RSW.... Unfortunately, full flights don't equal profitability.

While I am very skeptical of our current mgmt team, I still dont get why people would think that they would do something so stupid as pull full flights that are profitable. Answer? They don't. Mainline a/c can be used in other markets that can generate more revenue than TUS (a high leisure market). Period.

 

[JetMonkey]

This Rj buisness in Tus with AWA just started a few years back. AWA use to fly nothing but Mainline flts. down here. They even use 757s. And also, I can remember Delta, American, United all use to have 757's come in here. Just because it's just a 25min flt. shouldn't matter, as long as you can sustain a profit and the demand is there. The company to me just doesn't have enough planes and crews. This whole "don't add capacity" is crazy when you got Southwest adding it while you don't. They have doubled the flts outta of TUS. Also that comment about being just a leisure destination is only half true. There's plenty of growing buisness here with more coming. Unisource Energy, Raytheon, and IBM just to name a few. The University of Arizona is one of the nation's largest schools as well. American uses mainline because it has the buisness demand sustainable, that's why they don't use rjs.

 

[cageyjames]

Delta used to have a 757 that went ATL-PHX-TUS-PHX-ATL. Its been a long time since I've flown DL, but it was always a welcome sight down in TUS.

 

[Elevation]

This Rj buisness in Tus with AWA just started a few years back. AWA use to fly nothing but Mainline flts. down here. They even use 757s. And also, I can remember Delta, American, United all use to have 757's come in here. Just because it's just a 25min flt. shouldn't matter, as long as you can sustain a profit and the demand is there. The company to me just doesn't have enough planes and crews. This whole "don't add capacity" is crazy when you got Southwest adding it while you don't. They have doubled the flts outta of TUS. Also that comment about being just a leisure destination is only half true. There's plenty of growing buisness here with more coming. Unisource Energy, Raytheon, and IBM just to name a few. The University of Arizona is one of the nation's largest schools as well. American uses mainline because it has the buisness demand sustainable, that's why they don't use rjs.

I don't believe you have a grasp of modern airline economics. TUS-PHX is all connecting traffic which is not a enough of a money maker with mainline equipment on such a short stage length with current fare prices. People can save time and money by driving to PHX (approx 90 miles @ 75mph) If its such a great market (PHX-TUS) the great SWA would be all over it. Look around and see the other markets similar to TUS-PHX i.e. LAX/SAN ,ORD/MKE,DEN/COS plus probably half dozen others who used to be all mainline with some wide bodies on them now its RJ's. The airline model changes for good or bad and so must your thinking.

 

[EMBFA]

Ideally- it should be high frequency Q400s if we had them. Same for PHL-DCA, PHL-LGA, PHL-BWI. An Embraer from Tuscon to an East hub, probably CLT. CRJ900s should be converted into jetways or playhouses for children.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Flights are full? He!!, flights were full PHL- SNA, PIT-FRA, BOS-TPA/PBI/FLL/RSW.... Unfortunately, full flights don't equal profitability.

PHL-SNA route was taken away pre-merger?
Isn't SNA slot restricted as well as capacity controlled? I even see in Southwest Ads that SNA not included.I always thought that would be a long haul route to bring the cash in.

 

[JetMonkey]

I don't believe you have a grasp of modern airline economics. TUS-PHX is all connecting traffic which is not a enough of a money maker with mainline equipment on such a short stage length with current fare prices. People can save time and money by driving to PHX (approx 90 miles @ 75mph) If its such a great market (PHX-TUS) the great SWA would be all over it. Look around and see the other markets similar to TUS-PHX i.e. LAX/SAN ,ORD/MKE,DEN/COS plus probably half dozen others who used to be all mainline with some wide bodies on them now its RJ's. The airline model changes for good or bad and so must your thinking.

My understanding is very comprehendable. What I'm talking about is the AMOUNT of all that connecting traffic running up there (it's actually 112 miles and nobody does 75mph on I-10 anymore). The flts are always oversold and the station has to turn away revenue and cargo cause it cannot handle the volume. So, if you think it's fine to keep paying volenteer paxs $400 vouchers and make them wait for the next FULL flt, then I'd have to question your knowledge of airline dynamics.

 

[N903AW]

PHL-SNA route was taken away pre-merger?
Isn't SNA slot restricted as well as capacity controlled? I even see in Southwest Ads that SNA not included.I always thought that would be a long haul route to bring the cash in.

As it should be. There is absolutely NO reason why any airline should be selling 59.00 fares in SNA! All you see are late model, top-of-the-line BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus and Porsche automobiles in the airport parking garage. SNA is a high fare market, and people are willing to pay the price to fly into and out of that airport.

SNA-PHL, SNA-CLT could be huge money makers for US.