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For the record, CLT-SNA has never been flown (nor announced) by US.

I, personally, have, on behalf of many small OC firms, have lobbied for SNA-CLT. Match made in heaven rejected by the spreadsheet boys and the southern baptists.

It could have really interdicted DAL, but, our mgmt was looking at that penny as they stepped over the dollar bill.
 
Frequent RJ's are a smart way to go.
Airlines simply do not fly mainline equipment to places that produce depressed yields.
You do know that RJ's have higher seat mile costs than mainline equipment, don't you? And that "yield" is a seat mile measurement of ticket price?

So why would anyone in their right mind fly more expensive airplanes (on a seat mile basis) on routes where seat mile prices are lower.

Oh wait, the old high load factor on a smaller plane argument. As long as you're talking identical frequencies and demand won't fill the additional seats provided by the bigger equipment, it's valid. But for less total cost than flying 12 RJ's a day (basically hourly service), you can fly 6-7 mainline frequencies a day (every other hour service) while offering the same number of seats and taking in the same revenue.

Same revenue - lower cost = higher profit.

What you seem to be doing is what the bean counters apparently do - look at each flight in isolation. In that myoptic view, lower segment cost with higher load factors looks like a winner. In the larger scheme of things - daily capacity vs daily demand - a different picture becomes apparent.

At the very least, the peak demand periods should be mainline equipment if you're running over 8 frequencies a day. Of course, that assumes that there's the extra mainline equipment available to substitute for some of those RJ frequencies - a luxury US doesn't have.

High yield or low yield market has nothing to do with it. It should be entirely revenue vs cost - keeping the first as high as possible while keeping the second as low as possible.

Jim
 
Yields out of TUS, for every airline, are cr@ppy (sadly, a lot like PHX..). Plain and simple. Frequent RJ's are a smart way to go. There are many, many higher yielding city pairs where mainline can be used.
I guess that's why DL flies a 757 to ATL twice a day. Low-yield markets (forget the fact that booming TUS and Pima County have added on average 20,000 more residents per year since 2000) like LAS and MCO are more important uses for a/c. Nothing like filling up a 757 from CLT to LAS with an average fare of $199 r/t.

Boing Boy couldn't have spoken any truer words.
 
I guess that's why DL flies a 757 to ATL twice a day. Low-yield markets (forget the fact that booming TUS and Pima County have added on average 20,000 more residents per year since 2000) like LAS and MCO are more important uses for a/c. Nothing like filling up a 757 from CLT to LAS with an average fare of $199 r/t.

Boing Boy couldn't have spoken any truer words.

Exactly, what this guy seems to be arguing with me about is how management runs it, he thinks they always know what their doing. Hey, maybe he IS management huh? :shock:
What I'm saying is they don't always make the right call. If the volume of traffic is suffecient, then you bring in the right size plane. And let me tell ya, fares from TUS-PHX are not cheap, that's why alot of people still make the 2 hr. drive up to Sky Harbor. And like CLTBWIDAYSYR said, if the yeilds were not there then how come other airlines have it "sized" right with their planes? Don't get me wrong, there is alot of rj traffic and it's justifiable for it, but there's quite of bit of mainline aircraft traffic as well that hauls alot of people and cargo outta there. Hell even FedEx uses a A300's to TUS.
 
Heck, even I can answer that one - no.

But they have a decent sized operation in TUS, including non-stop service to two of their larger focus cities (LAX & MDW) and don't have a hub to feed in PHX (just another focus city not that far from PHX). All on 737's.

Does that apply to US?

Jim
 
One question jet monkey. Does WN fly to PHXTUS ?

No, they don't. It's much too short of a segment for them.


Jim is exactly right and in fact that is basically what Dougie himself hailed as one of the major benefits of the US/DL merger -- serving the same city (AVL was the example he used) with less a/c but the same number of seats.

The last flights from PHX-TUS leave at 900p and 945p. One is a CR9 and the other a DH8 for a total of 123Y seats. That could easily be replaced by an A319 or A320. In the morning, two flights depart TUS within 15 mintues of each other! I think we can all agree that PHX-TUS is not a major business traveler's route in which hourly service/ very high frequency is absolutely essential to profitability. I suspect that mainline service to TUS is indeed/would be profitable but there are other markets that require a mainline a/c more so and since US is so short on a/c, something has to give.
 
Yes, thats my point. It can't make money, TUS was a money loser for years. We even flew 757's to TUS just for lack of anything else to send, and the burn is what ? Approx 4k one way ?
 
It can't make money, TUS was a money loser for years.
Then why are they apparently running 12 frequencies a day - they like to lose money? [Edit - I see on the website that's it's "only" 11, at least tomorrow] Of course, that would be the Sandcastle - "Hey, those flights to TUS are losing money - what are we going to do!!??" "I know, let's add frequencies and make up for the loses with volume." "Yeah, that's the ticket...."

Jim
 
Yes, thats my point. It can't make money.

If you're referring to how WN operates, then, yes, you are probably right. WN relies primarily on O/D traffic, which I'm sure between PHX and TUS is small and wouldn't even warrant one daily flight.

US, on the other hand, has a hub in PHX where they rely on both O/D and thru traffic to make it successful. Flights from TUS-PHX are filled with passengers making connections in PHX to dozens of cities across the country.
 
Yes, thats my point. It can't make money, TUS was a money loser for years. We even flew 757's to TUS just for lack of anything else to send, and the burn is what ? Approx 4k one way ?
We flew TUS-PHX, NOT TUS-CLT or TUS-PHL. Why can't those markets be added to give TUS and Pima residents access to the east and Europe? If Delta can fill up two 757s per day and United can run 319s to IAD and ORD, then why can't we run one lousy non-stop to an east hub?
 
We flew TUS-PHX, NOT TUS-CLT or TUS-PHL. Why can't those markets be added to give TUS and Pima residents access to the east and Europe? If Delta can fill up two 757s per day and United can run 319s to IAD and ORD, then why can't we run one lousy non-stop to an east hub?
TUS isn't the only city not to have service to the east.
AUS
SAT
ABQ
SNA
SJC
YVR
I believe all these would do great. Also US needs to put in a MEM-PHL flight. AUS,SAT and ABQ will come when they get more E190's.
 
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