Tulsa's AMT's can make things better

[swamt]

You took an opinion written by a lawyer, and disputed it's legal validity. I am not sure what it PROVES, other than you are one hell of a mechanic.

Your opinions and you are welcomed to them. I simply disagree with your conclusion.

YES!! The lawyer that you are so willing to post, that he is factual. It's in writing Anomaly, from the attorney that represents the exact union you are "trying" to support. I am not disputing it's legal intent. I am telling you what the NMB has defined as such. Call them, write them, E-mail them, they will answer your questions, if you ask in an appropriate manner. It doesn't prove anything Anomaly. But I will tell you this. When AMFA started their card drive here at SWA, I looked into any and all questions ask and put forward, just as you guys are getting hammered with at AA. It got so bad with the teamsters lies here at SWA, trying to fight off the AMFA drive, that they were their own demise. We all did in fact contact the NMB, FAA, City of Dallas, DOT, and there's more, but all the lies were very prevalent and they were removed in a record 2 week card drive.

BTW; My previous post is not a conclusion. You, as well as many others need to verify "anything" the teamsters tell you, or promice you. I am not your enemy brother, just trying to stop another airline from making a huge mistake with the teamsters. Matter fact, if nothing else keep the TWU. I would rather see you guys bring in AMFA, but by all means, if not AMFA, keep the TWU over the teamsters. Fair warning my friend...

 

[swamt]

You seem to be waffling?

He is waffling hard Buck. It seems once you prove him wrong he suddenly changes gears, and as you say, ends up in reverse. That's what most of the teamsters plant-folk do when they caught in so many lies and mis-informations. But it is nice to see the teamsters do it all over again to themselves. LOL...

 

[Buck]

I wonder if the Teamsters and especially Anomaly believe in freedom?

 

[Anomaly]

I wonder if the Teamsters and especially Anomaly believe in freedom?

The freedom to post. Have a problem with it?

 

[Anomaly]

YES!! The lawyer that you are so willing to post, that he is factual. It's in writing Anomaly, from the attorney that represents the exact union you are "trying" to support. I am not disputing it's legal intent. I am telling you what the NMB has defined as such. Call them, write them, E-mail them, they will answer your questions, if you ask in an appropriate manner. It doesn't prove anything Anomaly. But I will tell you this. When AMFA started their card drive here at SWA, I looked into any and all questions ask and put forward, just as you guys are getting hammered with at AA. It got so bad with the teamsters lies here at SWA, trying to fight off the AMFA drive, that they were their own demise. We all did in fact contact the NMB, FAA, City of Dallas, DOT, and there's more, but all the lies were very prevalent and they were removed in a record 2 week card drive.

BTW; My previous post is not a conclusion. You, as well as many others need to verify "anything" the teamsters tell you, or promice you. I am not your enemy brother, just trying to stop another airline from making a huge mistake with the teamsters. Matter fact, if nothing else keep the TWU. I would rather see you guys bring in AMFA, but by all means, if not AMFA, keep the TWU over the teamsters. Fair warning my friend...

He is waffling hard Buck. It seems once you prove him wrong he suddenly changes gears, and as you say, ends up in reverse. That's what most of the teamsters plant-folk do when they caught in so many lies and mis-informations. But it is nice to see the teamsters do it all over again to themselves. LOL...

No, I am not waffling at all. This argument is simply getting beyond old to the point of stupid. One final time, you are claiming to have spoken to the NMB, FAA, the moon and God, but you fail to admit that their rules have not been challenged in court. You state that there is NOTHING that can be done about the NMB rules, and the Teamster attorneys say YOU ARE WRONG.

How much more simple does it need to be for you.

As to your other point, I was amfa too, and as I do not know how long you have been a mechanic, might make a gamble that I have fought for them longer than you. I worked on several campaigns to get them as representatives at UAL and spent many long hours defending and promoting their name. In very short order as a full member, I can tell you I have never been so disappointed with anything in my life.

I give a similar warning. Stay with the TWU if you must, but by no means believe that amfa is the answer to your problems. Just listen to SWAMT. He speaks for amfa and openly admits the battle for you is over with the NMB before it ever begins. It is not just a question of section 6, failure will be the normal process for all issues at amfa. They have a democratic union, and the members are able to guide their contract...But please all of you realize this;

The amfa Democratic process is like 4 foxes and 1hen voting on what to have for dinner.

The normal and regular membership much too often seem to be the hens.

 

[TWU informer]

No, I am not waffling at all. This argument is simply getting beyond old to the point of stupid. One final time, you are claiming to have spoken to the NMB, FAA, the moon and God, but you fail to admit that their rules have not been challenged in court. You state that there is NOTHING that can be done about the NMB rules, and the Teamster attorneys say YOU ARE WRONG.

How much more simple does it need to be for you.

As to your other point, I was amfa too, and as I do not know how long you have been a mechanic, might make a gamble that I have fought for them longer than you. I worked on several campaigns to get them as representatives at UAL and spent many long hours defending and promoting their name. In very short order as a full member, I can tell you I have never been so disappointed with anything in my life.

I give a similar warning. Stay with the TWU if you must, but by no means believe that amfa is the answer to your problems. Just listen to SWAMT. He speaks for amfa and openly admits the battle for you is over with the NMB before it ever begins. It is not just a question of section 6, failure will be the normal process for all issues at amfa. They have a democratic union, and the members are able to guide their contract...But please all of you realize this;

The amfa Democratic process is like 4 foxes and 1hen voting on what to have for dinner.

The normal and regular membership much too often seem to be the hens.

You are about to be designated irrelevant.

 

[Anomaly]

You are about to be designated irrelevant.

Sorry I scare you.

 

[AC Tynker]

You are about to be designated irrelevant.

Everyone is relevant Informer, even you.

 

[Buck]

I wonder if the Teamsters and especially Anomaly believe in freedom?

How about a Teamster open shop then.

Be a member of the Teamsters without dues for their political agenda?

 

[Anomaly]

How about a Teamster open shop then.

Be a member of the Teamsters without dues for their political agenda?

Explain yourself Buck. I'm listening.

 

[Buck]

Explain yourself Buck. I'm listening.

Being in a closed shop as we are here at AA under the representation of the TWU, we are force to belong to the union or least pay agency fee. Why can't the membership have the option of just agency fee without being forced to be a member? I said political, I do not care for the political agenda of the industrial unions such as those that belong to the AFL-CIOit in the case of the IBT,an industrial union that still ponies up to the Democratic party?

 

[Anomaly]

Being in a closed shop as we are here at AA under the representation of the TWU, we are force to belong to the union or least pay agency fee. Why can't the membership have the option of just agency fee without being forced to be a member? I said political, I do not care for the political agenda of the industrial unions such as those that belong to the AFL-CIOit in the case of the IBT,an industrial union that still ponies up to the Democratic party?

You can. It is called dues objector status and must be offered once a year by all unions covered under the RLA (NLRA is slightly different with some unions). This option is available at the IBT, AMFA and the TWU. You do still pay the portion of the dues responsible for servicing and enforcing the contract, but you are listed as a non-member and loose all right to vote or attend meetings. After all this, you only get a fraction of discount towards your union dues but it is the method specifically designed to do as you wish.

However, many union supporters look upon this option as very non union and frown upon the idea. I will not judge. Just offering the information.

http://www.lawmemo.com/NLRB/beck-qa.htm

 

[Buck]

Yes I am aware of this. Thanks for making it cleat to the Users here. However why should conservative members be forced to fund a political party not of their choosing?

 

[swamt]

No, I am not waffling at all. This argument is simply getting beyond old to the point of stupid. One final time, you are claiming to have spoken to the NMB, FAA, the moon and God, but you fail to admit that their rules have not been challenged in court. You state that there is NOTHING that can be done about the NMB rules, and the Teamster attorneys say YOU ARE WRONG.

How much more simple does it need to be for you.

As to your other point, I was amfa too, and as I do not know how long you have been a mechanic, might make a gamble that I have fought for them longer than you. I worked on several campaigns to get them as representatives at UAL and spent many long hours defending and promoting their name. In very short order as a full member, I can tell you I have never been so disappointed with anything in my life.

I give a similar warning. Stay with the TWU if you must, but by no means believe that amfa is the answer to your problems. Just listen to SWAMT. He speaks for amfa and openly admits the battle for you is over with the NMB before it ever begins. It is not just a question of section 6, failure will be the normal process for all issues at amfa. They have a democratic union, and the members are able to guide their contract...But please all of you realize this;

The amfa Democratic process is like 4 foxes and 1hen voting on what to have for dinner.

The normal and regular membership much too often seem to be the hens.

Anomaly, Anomaly, Anomaly; The ONLY reason this is getting old to you is b/c you have been prooven wrong and are still misleading and spining the truths when you get prooven wrong.
1- Never claimed to have spoken to NMB or anybody you poated. I do know of mechanics that have and seen and read the responces after inquiring with the NMB. Matter fact the teamsters have done it in the past.
2- I have never said that their rules were never challenged. Let get it straight here and now Anomaly; You have been stating the teamsters can and will re-open nego when they take over at AA. I have been telling you that they cannot garrentee such as they have to have the company agree to a re-opener. Then the attorney's letter comes out and you continued to post that you still believe and understand the teamsters could re-open the contract. I still corrected you saying both parties must agree to re-open. Now you are flipping what you were saying in the beginning that you now agree with the attorney that the law has never been challenged. I don't think the law has ever been challenged as it is very clear what "newly certified" means as well as a replacement union taking over from another union. Again I was not saying the teamsters couln't challenge the law, hell, any union can do that. I was correcting you, as well as, the teamsters that it is not automatic on the re-opener, priod.
3- Again Anomaly your twisted spin on everything. I have never said you guys have lost with the NMB before it ever started. I did say that your teamsters will waste more of the dues from the members as they already know the answer to the sec 6 re-opener as this very same was brought to light here at SWA while we still had the loosers, AMFA was asked the very same thing and AMFA said no that they could not "UNLESS" the co. was to agree to it. The teamsters know already, they have already addressed this same exact issue in the past.
4-Anomaly--I don't give 2 ####$ how long you have been a mech or how long you have been a teamster requiter. You guys really need to keep listening to the teamsters as it is helping the AMFA card drive. The teamsters are well known for doing this at SWA. All their actions and lies and promiced retoric was the key to the record drive here, and we thank them, best thing that has ever happend.
5- This subject is only getting old to you b/c you have been constantly prooven wrong and all your lies brought to light. Like TWUinformer has stated, You are now irrevelant, too many times have you been brought to light and not once have you addmitted it. You just twist it into some sort of diffent meaning and TRY to run with it again. Anyone has the option to search back thru all the posting and verify everything, it's all in writing Anomaly, easily followed. Pls keep be a chearleader for the teamsters...

 

[Lloyd Grey]

Tulsa AMTs have a few years - those who remain employed at AA anyway, to plan for relocation to Texas. Embrace the Horns, and leave the chiggers behind. Seriously, when the 757/767 fleet is gone, all airframe overhaul work being done in house, will be done at DWH. We will welcome you to Texas of course and you will indeed "make a difference".

As for "There was a '89 drive, '98 drive, 2003 drive and now a 2012 drive. Problem is we've lost most of what's worth fighting for." ... and the overall AMFA argument. I was involved in the above AMFA drives and am sure AMFA is in the future of those who choose to remain at AA because there will be fewer in-house automotive mechanics (who really hate AMFA, you know), overhaul shop mechanics, machinists, cleaners, (all AFL-CIO lovers) on the pAAroll within a few years. Facts are facts.

I don't wish anyone bad luck or ill will. We lost this round in the fake bankruptcy. Perhaps not "lost" actually, rather - it was stolen from us.

Will this be the last AMFA drive? Maybe not. But "maybe" indeed.

While many of us are making wild ass predictions ...
After about 3 years AA will need to go hunting for AMTs again and will come back to the table because their pay scale will be the laughing stock of the industry. AA even forgave the pilots for their sickout when they couldn't find help and needed to make a deal. It is all about the market value for our services, one way or another. The market now includes foreign repair stations. Our enemies represent us in the U.S. Congress, Senate and White House. This is an election year. I suggest you get on the phone as soon as you log off the forum and start raising hell. :angry2: