Turmoil On Radar For Ual Alliance

USA320Pilot

Veteran
May 18, 2003
8,175
1,539
www.usaviation.com
Turmoil on radar for UAL alliance

US Air network-sharing accord being renegotiated

CHICAGO (Crain's Busiess News) - A partnership worth about $200 million annually to United Airlines is up in the air as US Airways merges with a United rival.

US Airways is reinventing itself as a low-cost carrier as it melds operations with America West Airlines. It hasn't decided if it will extend a lucrative "code-sharing" contract with United, which expires in early 2006. A proxy for the merger to which United and US Airways once aspired, the code-sharing agreement allows them to sell tickets on each other's flights, greatly expanding their geographic reach.

But the partners, whose networks and service once complemented each other neatly, increasingly appear mismatched now that US Airways has joined forces with America West to create a nationwide discount carrier that competes directly with United on lucrative transcontinental routes.

United offers competing service for about 20% of the seats flown on America West's portion of the new airline, with much of the overlap involving flights into the discount carrier's hubs at Las Vegas and Phoenix, according to data compiled for Crain's by OAG Americas. By contrast, United competes with just 4% of seats flown on US Airways' traditional East Coast network, according to OAG, which publishes airline flight schedules.

"There's no reason for it," turnaround specialist William Brandt says of the code-share agreement. "US Airways is trying to transform itself into a low-cost carrier. They don't need United."

OPTIMISTIC ON AGREEMENT

The two airlines say they're optimistic they'll reach a new agreement. For now, United continues to book tickets and share revenues for the routes US Airways flew prior to the October merger.

"We're in active discussions and are hopeful as we continue moving forward," says a United spokesman. "It's business as usual."

"Talks are amicable and we clearly think we're better off working out a new agreement," seconds a spokesman for US Airways, before adding the caveat, "We have to do it in a way that makes sense for our business model."

Still, analysts expect the airlines to scrap their partnership. At best, they say, it might be recast as a smaller agreement that doesn't include routes where competition is greatest. Either move would drain revenues from United as it emerges from bankruptcy next year and seeks to post its first annual operating profit since 2000.

Under the code-sharing agreement, the old US Airways flew passengers from the East Coast to United hubs like Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, where they connected to westbound United flights. But the new Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways will want to steer passengers to the flights it has gained from America West.

Another potential threat to United's revenues: efforts by new US Airways CEO Doug Parker, who formerly led America West, to emulate discounter Southwest Airlines. Mr. Parker, 43, even adopted the stock ticker symbol LCC, aviation industry shorthand for low-cost carrier.

Because United remains a full-fare airline, US Airways will likely offer cheaper tickets. If the two continue code-sharing, US Airways could undercut United's prices for seats on planes flown by United, says Alan Sbarra, principal with Roach & Sbarra Consulting, a Bay Area aviation consultancy.

"It's a big issue," Mr. Sbarra says. "If US Airways is successful, they're going to sell more seats, they're going to steal (market)share from United."

©2005 by Crain Communications Inc.

USA320Pilot comments: Do not be surprised if US Airways is involved in another corporate transaction and scraps the United domestic alliance in the not-to-distant future. Moroever, with the new pilot transition agreement permits US Airways to add EMB-190s to the mainline in addition to the current fleet count, US Airways crews to fly one Hawaiian trip per day, and America West crews to fly two European crews per day. I believe the America West crews will fly Shannon and Dublin off-season service in B757 ETOPS aircraft and we could see more widebody's on the property sooner than the publicly announced new A330 order.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
There is no new A330 order, there was a modified order to emerge from chapter 11 and a order for the A350 which is not entering service till 2011.

More of his rumor-mongering.
 
USA320Pilot comments: Do not be surprised if US Airways is involved in another corporate transaction and scraps the United domestic alliance in the not-to-distant future. Moroever, with the new pilot transition agreement permits US Airways to add EMB-190s to the mainline in addition to the current fleet count, US Airways crews to fly one Hawaiian trip per day, and America West crews to fly two European crews per day. I believe the America West crews will fly Shannon and Dublin off-season service in B757 ETOPS aircraft and we could see more widebody's on the property sooner than the publicly announced new A330 order.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
[/quote]

Wait a minute, weren't you the one who kept saying a UCT between UAL/US was in the final stages...?

Which side of your mouth are you talking from {both}...?
 
700 -

It may be possible that NWA will have to defer a few of their A330 deliveries due to the BK. Perhaps we could pick up a few airplanes on the cheap......never know.
 
It is also possible that US can go lease the parked 747-400s that NWA and UAL parked.

But you have to consider who started the rumor, and yes it is just a rumor.
 
I see no need to continue a code share with UAL. They are already in Star, so any place like Asia where we don't go would be covered.

I don't think their heart has ever been in any kind of link to US. We are going more of an AirTran method and they are trying to stay full service, say like Luftansa. I'm not sure we fit into their agenda and visa versa.

Anyway, I'm tired of the "well we get this on UAL" crap. Neither side ever attempted to make the two services of the airline consistant, so I say screw it. We no longer need our Chicago pals....not that we ever really DID.
 
700 -

Just take his posts with a grain of salt. The industryis very fluid and in a state of flux, anything can happen. Why argue, just go, "hmm, intersting" and be done with it.

First -

I think there is still a gap that UAL can fill in the route network. Look at all of the areas in the midwest that we no longer serve. Soe of the old DAY/IND hub cities like FWA, EVV, GRR, CMI. Even the cities we didn't serve. I am sure there are still some viable cities out of SFO that would still make sense too.

I wouldn't write them off completely yet....but their roll could be cut back tremendously.
 
The code share generates over $200 million to US' bottom line that money helped US survive.
 
Agreed, but now a good chunk of that revenue could be generated on US metal. So you discontinue code sharing on flights where it doesn't make sense and continue where it does. The landscape of our operation has changed and the terms of the codes share should to, if it makes sense to do so.
 
I could be mistaken, but I thought we had 5 a330's deferred until 2011 in the first bk
 
But you have to consider who started the rumor, and yes it is just a rumor.

EXACTLY.

Please people, let's not have another 15 pages of speculation back and forth. The last rumor was Ted being sold off, which obviously was never really going to happen, no matter who was talking about it or where it was talked about.

After 15 pages of argument, he was proven wrong again, and he conveniently stopped responding and ignored calls to be accountable for what he said. Almost as if he had never made the claims in the first place. He never admits being wrong and never acknowledges others being right. Same old sorry story.

In the end he will say something like, "I never said it would happen... I just said don't be surprised... etc. etc." Mark my words.

This will play out just like every other overly-dramatized scenario he comes up with. Both parties recognize that the current situation is not ideal for either party. Both parties realize there is a financial advantage to renegotiating a deal that builds on the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses. NO ONE will be "shunned" or otherwise disadvantaged, no matter how many "analysts" say otherwise. Let's also keep in mind that US is part of STAR because of United. Without UA's sponsorship it would not exist. If a better deal can be arranged, (and my sources tell me it will) then the codeshare will continue. If not, it won't. It's that simple.

Try to keep in mind that business is business, and it's about making money. There are no super secret back room deals motivated by personal agendas to screw an old nemisis wherever and whenever possible. Those types of fantasies reside soley in the imaginations of certain self-important people.

Peace,
767jetz.
 
There is no new A330 order, there was a modified order to emerge from chapter 11 and a order for the A350 which is not entering service till 2011.

More of his rumor-mongering.
Not quite true in ground school we were told of the possibility of some "5 or 6 white tail 330-200S" JUST RUMOR THOUGH
 
I see no need to continue a code share with UAL. They are already in Star, so any place like Asia where we don't go would be covered.

I don't totally understand the whole alliance/codeshare/airline partners business, but I thought that all members of Star Alliance were codeshared with all other members. Otherwise, what would be the point? To sell tickets for another airline and get only a travel agent commission?
 
There is no new A330 order, there was a modified order to emerge from chapter 11 and a order for the A350 which is not entering service till 2011.

More of his rumor-mongering.

:p

If we want new wide-bodies before 2011 -- which I expect we will -- there is a provision with Airbus to convert some of the A350 orders back to A330-200 orders, sooner than later.

:up:

Does anyone know who's engines NW uses on their A330's? If it's Pratt & Whitney, which is what US has, then picking up a few of those line positions is a definite possibility!!

;)