410OhOne said:
MCI AFL-CIO said:
410ohone
Im not Steve, but I will try to respond to your 3 questions, in my opinion, I know now Im opened to hear and receive hateful remarks and name calling, but I let you and others report without namecalling.
Industrial Unions should not and can not fairly represnet a skilled craft? My question to you, who are the skilled craft? only airline mechanics? do you consider the machinists? welders? plant maintenace workers? plumbers? I know your answer, but dont you consider any worker skilled? Fleet service and stores are very skilled and crafted. and by the way, Im an AMT, always have been, but howmany of the "skilled craft" got their start in the lower classification and moved up?
Concessions in 2003..........I wont give you any BS.........you as I and everyone received a ballot and voted to give or not to give concessions, I didnt vote to give up anything, but yet it passed. I would rather have our international come to us and tell us that the company wants to negotiate, rather than go behind our back and give away without our consent. The concessions passed, no one is happy about it
MEMBERS RIGHTS TO BE HEARD AND NOT DICTATED TO............... AMFA has the process of recalling any officer, by vote, we also have that right, did you sigh the petition recently to oust the entire E BOARD?
I know by stating this, I can already hear the gasps.. but here goes, How many AMFA supporters have been laid off, not in the last year but in their lifetime, and had any AFL-CIO represented union, lobby local, state or Federal government for aid? Aid to pay training to learn a new profession? Aid to raise the lenght and value of the state un employment wages? How many times did the unions save, help the TWA WORKFORCE either state, city or federal? How many union members have been hospitalized and unable to stay current with bill paying? The unions come thru for all of us. How many lobbyest have helped all union members benefit, just once?
MCI AFL-CIO,
Thanks for the reply and walking out on a limb for me.
Skilled Craft? You make a very good point, however with responsibility comes compensation. So for sake of argument lets just exchange the word skilled for liable. I think we both agree that a house cannot stand safely without the skilled labor of a plumber, carpenter, bricklayer, etc. but none of the above groups can move into action without the licensed signature of an architect. The architect, certified, tested, and school trained puts his name on the line. Should that carpenter or any other skilled group wish to remain in the building industry, but make the "big bucks" he must attain further certification to become an architect or more liable, responsible person. Now that he has went to school, as you wish your kids to, he has most likely incurred a student loan balance to pay off. If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification. A certification that in todays industrial unions is used as leverage to bring up the wages of the other work groups. You say that many have started at lower classifications and moved up. I believe and hope they did this to provide for their families as you suggest.
Concessions 2003,
Well I will get a little ignorant here if I may. We had no chance in that Iraqi vote. I for one never recieved a ballot. One was never mailed to my home, even if it was I was playing in the sand. I contacted the Co. and local by phone from halfway around the world to try to find out how to vote. No one could help or respond and get it done. Thus I didnt get to vote. I believe I am not the only one who can say that. There are conspiracy theories abound regarding the aftermath and handling of the fight against terrorism since the 9/11 attacks. My question to big business and the Mayor of Chicago who all declare these cutbacks, these sacrificies, the carnage, and destruction of personal lives and property (Meigs Field) all in the name of economic downturn and national security since the attacks is, How much more can you put on the back of 9/11? Wow that was a run on sentence, but the point is made.
Yes I did sign the Eboard petition. Which stall at MCI were they placed in by the International to use as toilet paper, cause you and I both know that is all their worth.
As far as the Federal Aid, lobbying, and such. I will admit to you that this is the kind of insightful information that I am looking for and must consider before signing my card. Does AMFA not have that kind of lobbying effort?
Thanks Again
Thanks for the reply and walking out on a limb for me.
Skilled Craft? You make a very good point, however with responsibility comes compensation. So for sake of argument lets just exchange the word skilled for liable. I think we both agree that a house cannot stand safely without the skilled labor of a plumber, carpenter, bricklayer, etc. but none of the above groups can move into action without the licensed signature of an architect. The architect, certified, tested, and school trained puts his name on the line. Should that carpenter or any other skilled group wish to remain in the building industry, but make the "big bucks" he must attain further certification to become an architect or more liable, responsible person. Now that he has went to school, as you wish your kids to, he has most likely incurred a student loan balance to pay off. If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification. A certification that in todays industrial unions is used as leverage to bring up the wages of the other work groups. You say that many have started at lower classifications and moved up. I believe and hope they did this to provide for their families as you suggest.
Concessions 2003,
Well I will get a little ignorant here if I may. We had no chance in that Iraqi vote. I for one never recieved a ballot. One was never mailed to my home, even if it was I was playing in the sand. I contacted the Co. and local by phone from halfway around the world to try to find out how to vote. No one could help or respond and get it done. Thus I didnt get to vote. I believe I am not the only one who can say that. There are conspiracy theories abound regarding the aftermath and handling of the fight against terrorism since the 9/11 attacks. My question to big business and the Mayor of Chicago who all declare these cutbacks, these sacrificies, the carnage, and destruction of personal lives and property (Meigs Field) all in the name of economic downturn and national security since the attacks is, How much more can you put on the back of 9/11? Wow that was a run on sentence, but the point is made.
Yes I did sign the Eboard petition. Which stall at MCI were they placed in by the International to use as toilet paper, cause you and I both know that is all their worth.
As far as the Federal Aid, lobbying, and such. I will admit to you that this is the kind of insightful information that I am looking for and must consider before signing my card. Does AMFA not have that kind of lobbying effort?
Thanks Again
Thanks for replying 410OhOne,
I will answer all questions as honest as I can and with the best knowledge I have, no lies, and never hateful or threatening,
About the Federal Aid, Lobbying, and such, it is true, AMFA does not and will not recognize Political intervention, lobbying for aid to help members, promoting, endorsing, seeking political power that unions need for the membership. Everyday we hear about another union using its privelege within the political circles to aid another union member, keeping work in house instead of outsourcing to foreign contries, etc
Unions, AFL-CIO unions, established safety guidelines for all of while in the workforce, that not only benefited the union worker but also established a safe work place for non union members,
The list goes on and on about what Political connections mean to all union members, we have all benefited sometime
Thank you for signing the petition to oust the E BOARD, I also signed and beleive they should be held accountable for the childishness they represent to our local. I beleive in membership and participation. Thats what irked me about what the E BOARD did, did to our members, Our membership elected our local president, fairly and just, he received more votes than all others on the E BOARD, because the membership felt he was the right person to lead our local, and then, what? 3 months later, because they want to be able to dictate to him what his responsiblity is they vote to suspend him, without discussing with the local? Then, not only suspend him, they had a kangaroo court to dismiss him, lead by the person that has the most to gain, the VP, now president. ANd, Not once did the E BOARD post or notify the membership about any problems they had with the president, not until,..1 month later? they come out with a complete laundry list? HOW CHILDISH. Not only did they hide their feelings about how they felt about the president, but then, without notifying or asking the memberhsip they go and buy new laptop computers? Yeah our local has problems, but we can replace them with petitions and hopefully we will,
Your statement about skilled, Makes sense, nice way with words, A&P's are like an archictect. But to me, saying we are skilled, sounds like, and this is just my opinion, but sounds like the mechanics are saying we are better than the fleet service cleaner, better than the parts clerk who pulls our part, I disagree, I beleive we are all as valuable as the other.
Where I differ I guess, is your views as to a welder and and A&P mechanic, both are skilled, both are a craft, both are definitely professional, but when AMFA says they want to be a skilled craft union, how can they represent the plant maintenace worker, who does not work non airplanes, the welder, who builds stands and docks, the Machinist who makes parts and tools?If we are to beleive that we should have our own class, and skill, to me it sounds as if the other skills and professionals need their own union also? But we know that wont happen, so why split the "professionals" why not keep all "professionals"?
I hear all the talk about keep the lower class to themselves, and us to ourselves, Maybe Im wrong and If I am, I apologize, but has anyone compared title 1 contract to title 5 contract, I should say concessions? Why is that title 1 lost more than title 5? Not because of TWU, all were represented by the TWU, but because title 5 had their own negotiating committee? Please correct me if Im wrong
If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification.
I agree, you should be compensated for your education. But what about those the have a 4 year college education and could only find a job paying minimum wage? The same loaf of bread costs us all the same
Thank you again
:wacko: 
