TWU / AMFA Debate

[Ken MacTiernan]

Mr. Owens, you ask two questions in one sentence. First question, I already stated I see Mr. Little as my leader of the TWU/ATD. Did I vote for him, no. I did not vote for Bush either, yet he is my President and I stand behind my country.

I believe you take Mr. Hall's position as President a bit literally. I have read about your dual unionship role in the NY local, does it really matter who put an end to it, Mr. Hall or Mr. Little? Perhaps Mr. Hall's position as Pres. was required to remove you, or perhaps you hit a nerve with him portraying your unionism as honest. I do not know, I do not agree with what you did but it's not my call to judge you either.

I still do not see what will change with AMFA. I believe I could find a few members at NWA that believe AMFA is corrupt, even though there may not be any hard evidence to support the acqusation. The fact Mr. Delle-Femine has been President of AMFA since it's conception, by him, bothers me. I can't believe in the 30 or so years it has been chartered that no one would strive for his position. Is this because just in the last 5 years the membership has grown over 500 members? When Mr. Delle-Femine passes away what will occur? A vote that no one has a bit of experience at, will all the loyal AMFA supporters and members go into a year of mourning, or longer? Has there been an instance where an elected AMFA rep has been removed from office as Mr. Owens and Mr. Cunningham?

One thing I have learned here in the country is to never "trust a smiling dog". AMFA has been doing a lot of smiling as I read here, there lies my hesitation.




Calvin, Bob Owens was removed from office because he tried to "change from within" for the better. That's what was asked of the members from the twu. What Bob did was to provide a better service for our profession but that went against the twu mantra of "we don't care who does the work as long as they pay dues".

As for Dell being at the helm of AMFA for 30 years you have not researched or even e-mailed Dell to ask him why this is. For a long period AMFA had no members since their existing airlines at the time had been bought. All of a sudden you and others inquire as to why no one runs against Dell? Let me ask you why no one ran against him when he was flying around the country talking to AMTs about craft unionism that is democratic.

And as far as smiling dogs go maybe you should look at the twu pound. Their dogs have been biting the hand that feeds them for too long. There in lies my problem.

 

[Steve Connell]

Calvin, Bob Owens was removed from office because he tried to "change from within" for the better. That's what was asked of the members from the twu. What Bob did was to provide a better service for our profession but that went against the twu mantra of "we don't care who does the work as long as they pay dues".

BS Ken, Bobby was removed for dual unionship. I do not find fault in you if our opinions differ, I do find fault if you are underhanded in your methods of achieving your desires. Bob, at the very moment, he decided AMFA was better or that the TWU was not his cup of tea, he should have resigned and retained his integrity. What was he making a month as sec/treas.? Enough to offset a bit of his high mortgage or rent in NY? That's BS, hide behind the masses and doing what is best for the members, bottom line Calvin, Bob has no internal values or does not deem an oath worthy of his integrity.

Can Bob type? That's not a question, but a statement.

Do not let these guys deter your informational search Calvin, see me at work if you have any questions.

 

[Buck]

BS Ken, Bobby was removed for dual unionship.

BS Steve, if that were the case then over 8,000 members should be brought up on charges of dual unionism.

Does anyone wear any IAM t-shirts at work?

BTW, is there any truth to the rumor that the members from TWA are going to petition Kasher for their seniority?

 

[Steve Connell]

Buck, I haven't seen anything on the seniority issue with Kasher. If I do I'll post. rest assured.

BTW, I have not seen any IAM t-shirts at MCIE for quite a while. The only one I had is to holy to display in public. If it was not dual unionship then I apologize for my post, what was it then, I am misinformed evidently.

 

[Buck]

I was not questioning whether or not Bob Owens or anyone else was committing dual unionism. I was pointing out that if you charge one or a few then anyone violating this issue should be held to the same standard.

Now as for myself, I do not practice dual unionism, I am an Associate member of AMFA and a non-member of the TWU. I have yet to be charged for any reason.

 

[Steve Connell]

Are you an elected official of the TWU as Bob was?

 

[Raptor]

Are you an elected official of the TWU as Bob was

the key word is elected by the membership if the membership had a problem with him then they are the ones who should have removed him not Sonny Hall.

 

[Steve Connell]

I actually agree with you Raptor, the membership should have taken him and his friends out at the knees. What he did was irresponsible. I will not judge his intentions but his actions were unwarranted as an elected official.

 

[Raptor]

fortunatly his members at HIS LOCAL do not agree with you, and who are we to tell his members at his Local who should represent them.

I do not think that we or anyone at the International have that right.
why elect members to represent us if someone from somewhere else that does not represent us can just remove them, this does not make sense to me.

 

[Buck]

Are you an elected official of the TWU as Bob was?

No, whether one holds an elected office has nothing to do with dual unionism.

Why are those members who practice dual unionism on a daily basis not brought up on charges?

 

[Bob Owens]

Mr. Owens, you ask two questions in one sentence.

It was two sentences, in one paragraph.

First question, I already stated I see Mr. Little as my leader of the TWU/ATD. Did I vote for him, no. I did not vote for Bush either, yet he is my President and I stand behind my country.

I'll restate the question, did you or will you have the opportunity to vote for him?

I believe you take Mr. Hall's position as President a bit literally.

Ok, then what is he, in the abstract if you must?

I have read about your dual unionship role in the NY local, does it really matter who put an end to it, Mr. Hall or Mr. Little?

Oh really? And what exactly did you read and who gave it to you? Funny thing is that Sonny Hall has claimed in a letter to a Local 562 member that he did not remove us, the Presidents council made him do it.

I do not agree with what you did

What exactly do you believe I did?

I still do not see what will change with AMFA.

Well first of all joining AMFA will bring us closer to getting all the mechanics into one union. Even Sonny Hall could not come up with an arguement against that concept.

Secondly AMFA offers us the opportunity to have a democratic accountable union, something we do not have with the TWU.

I believe I could find a few members at NWA that believe AMFA is corrupt, even though there may not be any hard evidence to support the acqusation.

Perhaps you could, but we have 8600 mechanics who feel that way about the TWU plus another 1200 so far in other classifications that are going for tyhe AGW.If you want hard evidence just look at the TWUs performance for the last twenty years.

The fact Mr. Delle-Femine has been President of AMFA since it's conception, by him, bothers me. I can't believe in the 30 or so years it has been chartered that no one would strive for his position. Is this because just in the last 5 years the membership has grown over 500 members?


OK so it bothers you, then you can vote against him or run for office yourself. You do not have either option to do that with the TWU.

When Mr. Delle-Femine passes away what will occur?

Then, unlike in the TWU the members will elect a succesor. When Sonny dies we will not get to vote on his successor.

One thing I have learned here in the country is to never "trust a smiling dog". AMFA has been doing a lot of smiling as I read here, there lies my hesitation.

I've been to the "country" a few times, even to a pig farm (rough on the nostrils) and neither here or there have I ever seen a "smiling dog". If in fact I did see one then I too would likely hesitate. Perhaps you are seeing things because you have been in the sty too long and the fumes are getting to you. A high concentration of methane could cause oxygen deprivation.

If you have seen how the TWU has performed for the last twenty years then it should be as clear as day where we have been, where we are and where we are headed with the TWU. It should also be clear that we need change and that the TWU has no intention on giving us what we need.

 

[Bob Owens]

Calvin, Bob Owens was removed from office because he tried to "change from within" for the better. That's what was asked of the members from the twu. What Bob did was to provide a better service for our profession but that went against the twu mantra of "we don't care who does the work as long as they pay dues".

BS Ken, Bobby was removed for dual unionship. I do not find fault in you if our opinions differ, I do find fault if you are underhanded in your methods of achieving your desires. Bob, at the very moment, he decided AMFA was better or that the TWU was not his cup of tea, he should have resigned and retained his integrity. What was he making a month as sec/treas.? Enough to offset a bit of his high mortgage or rent in NY? That's BS, hide behind the masses and doing what is best for the members, bottom line Calvin, Bob has no internal values or does not deem an oath worthy of his integrity.

Can Bob type? That's not a question, but a statement.

Do not let these guys deter your informational search Calvin, see me at work if you have any questions.

$800 a month

So tell us Steve what side are you on this week, are you union or management? Then again with the TWU there is not much of a difference now is there?

I'm on the same side as I have always been, the workers side.

How trustwothy is a "union" official who jumps back and forth between management and the union?

Which is worse, supporting another union or suporting management? With the TWU we know the answer, supporting another union, even the suspicion of doing so is grounds for removal. However being in management is considered OK. In fact with the TWU you can be both in management and retain your position as a TWU officer. This was brought to light at the 2001 Convention.

Why would any union consider another union to be a greater enemy than management? Because this union considers management its ally and its own members and other unions its enemy. Any member who is not willing to sacrifice their standard of living to grow the union, and Sonny Halls paycheck is an "enemy".

You were a member of the IAM. Where is your loyalty to them? Where are your morals?

"I actually agree with you Raptor, the membership should have taken him and his friends out at the knees."

Oh really? Well maybe you should come up here and show them how it is done tough guy.

" What he did was irresponsible. I will not judge his intentions but his actions were unwarranted as an elected official."

Could you be more specific?

 

[limit]

Posted on: Jan 5 2004, 02:45 PM by calvin
" First question, I already stated I see Mr. Little as my leader of the TWU/ATD.
Did I vote for him, no. I did not vote for Bush either, yet he is my President and I stand behind my country."


With all due respect:
You will be able to vote your USA President out of office very soon (or retain him if you wish).
You do not have the same option with Mr. Little.
Why do you stand behind a man you cannot elect or remove?
Do you think that if you stand behind an imposed,
non removable president you are standing behind anyone or anything?
With all due respect ; not in this US of A.


Posted on: Jan 5 2004, 02:45 PM by calvin
I believe you take Mr. Hall's position as President a bit literally.


Would you please explain what " a bit literally" means?

 

[Steve Connell]

So tell us Steve what side are you on this week, are you union or management? Bob, I have not been in management for going on 10 years now, you try and make something out of that? Grasping a bit aren't you? I did give up my union role legally, with respect to the union. Respect and integrity still in tact, you cannot state the same. I also came back to union Bob, legally, and am not a bit disturbed with the role I had as management.

So Bob, $800/month helped in NY now didn't it. You just blew your cost of living expense you cry so hard about. I'd say you had your best interests in mind not your locals. What a better scam, sell AMFA from within and have the TWU pay you for it, miss the money? A shame they shut you down, you were such a legend, in NY that is.

Why would any union consider another union to be a greater enemy than management? First off Bob, you take for granted I see AMFA as a union. Sorry bud, they will never represent themselves to me as a union that I know as a union.

Oh really? Well maybe you should come up here and show them how it is done tough guy.
Bob, is that an offer? I'd think throwing a burger over a cliff would be a quicker way.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Bob, I have not been in management for going on 10 years now,

Name: TWA-AMT
Location: Monsanto Falls, MO
Date: Saturday, May 10, 1997 at 19:57:04Comments:

To all those who have been wondering whatever happened to our old buddy Steve Connell, A.K.A. "Johnny", The TWA/MCI IAM Steward who used to share his unique brand of "wisdom" with us, worry no more. It seems that Steve/Johnny overcame his identity crisis and has accepted a job as Maintenance Supervisor at TWA's Overhaul base. Whether this is because he finally realized what a farce the IAM is, or if it was payment from TWA for a job well done, we will all miss him.

10 years???