TWU / AMFA Debate

[Bob Owens]

So tell us Steve what side are you on this week, are you union or management? Bob, I have not been in management for going on 10 years now, you try and make something out of that? Grasping a bit aren't you? I did give up my union role legally, with respect to the union. Respect and integrity still in tact, you cannot state the same. I also came back to union Bob, legally, and am not a bit disturbed with the role I had as management.

So Bob, $800/month helped in NY now didn't it. You just blew your cost of living expense you cry so hard about. I'd say you had your best interests in mind not your locals. What a better scam, sell AMFA from within and have the TWU pay you for it, miss the money? A shame they shut you down, you were such a legend, in NY that is.

Why would any union consider another union to be a greater enemy than management? First off Bob, you take for granted I see AMFA as a union. Sorry bud, they will never represent themselves to me as a union that I know as a union.

Oh really? Well maybe you should come up here and show them how it is done tough guy.
Bob, is that an offer? I'd think throwing a burger over a cliff would be a quicker way.

1997, how many years ago was that?

Respect and Integrety? How do your members and coworkers look at you? You know the people that you were supposedly representing while you were making arrangements to jump from the side of labor to management? We have not heard from anyone in MCI who says they respect you or feel that you have integrety. Are all of your postings a pathetic attempt to ingratiate yourself with the Local E-board for a handout?

All I was accused of was supporting another union, still on the same side, despite the fact that our "union" consideres supporting another union, unless they say its ok, is worse than supporting management.

The $800 a month was nice. I did make a motion a few years back to reduce it. When the Local was first chartered and we set the rates we did so based upon Bobby Gless's word that the rates he came up with were the average. The fault is not all his, we should have taken the time to check, but we were a split ticket and did not want to start off fighting. Lesson learned, we were wrong.

It was not until two years into office that I did my own survey and found that we were higher than most with Bobby Gless being one of the highest paid Presidents out there. As President of the 1000 member Local 562 he made over $10,000 a year more than the President of the 38,000 member Local 100. $97,000 vs. $85,000.

Jimmy Gorman, one of our E-board members told one of his professors in Hostra, where he is studying labor law of our salaries. His response was that it was "Grossly inappropriate". Jimmy and I brought up the issue at an E-board meeting, however it was not recieved warmly.

Miss the money? Well it did come in handy, however I'm able to make it up on the outside now that I have a lot more free time. Plus now I can say exactly what I want to say. GO AMFA, GO AGW, airline unions for airline workers!

AMFA not a union? I guess that your definition of a union is an organization that gives management whatever they want and trains managers by making them stewards first.

The offer stands.

PS. Local 562 was who was paying me. The members of Local 562 support me, including stores. Who am I supposed to represent, Sonny Hall and Jim Little or the members of Local 562? They elected me by a 70% margin in a three way race, they did not remove me, the International did.

 

[mojo13]

Back to the debate;

Sonny Hall and Delle Femine are figureheads.

Who wants to debate a figurehead?

 

[Bob Owens]

Back to the debate;

Sonny Hall and Delle Femine are figureheads.

Who wants to debate a figurehead?

Figureheads? They are Presidents! One is the elected spokesman of the members the other is the appointed dictator. They have the authority to support whatever they say. In the TWU members have no authority, that's what the International claimed in Federal Court and the court agreed. Since we agree to be in the TWU and have the right to vote out the entire organization the court considers it OK that we do not have the right to vote for officers or on our contract.

As far as members debating we can and do that here.

Why do you expect members to go to meetings? To see other workers? The same workers that they just were with for 8.5 hours working? They come there to see what the President has to say. Are all Presidents just figureheads or are at least some of them leaders? Silly me, I always thought we voted for leaders, not figureheads, I guess all those that dont bother to vote are right, does anyone really want to waste their time voting for a "figurehead"? Do we really need figureheads or do we need leaders? Perhaps that is the problem with the TWU, we have figureheads instead of leaders. Thats why they do not want a debate between Presidents, because the TWU will be putting an inanimate object, a figurehead against a LEADER!

 

[mojo13]

As I said earlier, the Presidents(figureheads) delegate others to run the union. It is no longer their job to sell the union, just oversee it.

 

[Bob Owens]

As I said earlier, the Presidents(figureheads) delegate others to run the union. It is no longer their job to sell the union, just oversee it.

Oversee? As in administrate? Is that it?

Is that all we should expect for two hours pay per month?

Is that all we should expect our union to do, simply administrate?

If the members are to take it upon themselves to be "leaders" then why have them?

I do not think that it is unreasonable to expect a union to lead us forward towards better pay and benifits. If the President is the top job in the Union and all he is supposed to do is "oversee" do we really need him? They should change his title from "President" to "Overseer".

I want a union that will provide a leader not an overseer. Free people have leaders, slaves had overseer's.

 

[Raptor]

Bob I love watching you beat these clowns up, I can't believe he thinks the Leaders of two large Unions are merely figureheads and therefore we should not expect anything from them, anyone that I am paying I danm well expect something from them and the higher up the ladder they are the more I expect from them, I like most would prefere to see Jim Little debate Delle and it would probably be more appropriate but if he is really to sick to debate then the next inline should take his place, we are not going to hold the debate until Jim Little is well or dies and is replaced, our drive is over in March and the debate needs to happen now on Jan. 17 and that is when it is going to happen if the TWU International Leaders are afraid to face the membership then it will be up to the membership to decide what they want to do about it, some I am sure will be angry about it and sign a card, others who have not signed may not sign but will vote for AMFA when we call for an election in March, either way I think that if a TWU Leader does not show their will be a price to pay for that decision, on the other hand if no one shows for a TWU Supporter vs a TWU AMFA supporter who cares, supporters are not accountable to anyone, we are not elected officers so we cannot be removed from office, we don't represent any organization so our actions cannot be held against any organization, we are simply supporters of one Union or the other and have nothing but our own personal opinions. 😀

The Union elected Leaders or Unelected Leaders are the one's who are being paid by us and should be held accountable for their actions.

And I for one want to ask the Leaders of both sides questions that I need answers too and the Brady Theater on Jan. 17 is where all of us will get the answers to our questions from the only people who are qualified to answer our question.

If no one shows from the TWU then there will be no one to answer TWU questions and I guess we will just have to go with AMFA.

8619 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Wednesday January 07, 2004 at 01:13:19 AM. Our goal is to obtain 60% of the Craft and Class of
Mechanic and Related, and at this time, our estimate of that number, with 'elbow room' is approximately 9,634 cards.
Using that number, at this time, we are about 89.5% to our goal, or approximately 53.7% of our Craft and Class. Good job so far, and let's
REDOUBLE our efforts and GET THIS DONE!

 

[mojo13]

Hey Raptor

 

[Rusty]

I would rather talk to the crapper than talk with some of the brain washed TWU cultists. How do you debate mad cow disease? :blink:

I heard AA bought TWA out of bankruptcy and they sent three bag smashers from both airlines to make the deal. 😛h34r:

 

[Raptor]

I think I will pass on your offer mojo 13 but I bet there are some TWU supporters that would take you up on the offer.

Hey Bob and Rusty I think I got to him a little bit.
must have struck a nerve.

better watch those comments Rusty you could be the next guy that mojo makes an offer too.

 

[mojo13]

As Drippy would say, HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Superside]

As Drippy would say, HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hey Drip... I mean MOJO... Share croppers were Survivors!!!