Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
They have not met with the NMB. They requested to meet with the NMB at wich time the union will give a presentation and new proposal.
TWU negotiators ready to contact NMB
- Thread starter CIO
- Start date
They have not met with the NMB. They requested to meet with the NMB at wich time the union will give a presentation and new proposal.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
No political clout, no community clout (as in labor alliances) and last but not least no financial backing to mount a legal fight, is what you are peddling to the membership. You keep saying democracy and accountability will be Amp’s mantra; democracy and accountability are there in the TWU’s constitution. But because you have no patience and because you can’t do due diligence to recall an official and because you can only comprehend instant gratification, you push to decertify the TWU. Maybe you should be certified. You didn’t have the power to make any change while in office maybe because your views were not the consensus. With the country and the company in the financial situation that they are in, you believe in the illusive Snapbacks that were not gained by your beloved AMFA. You honestly believe that AMP can do it. There is a price to be paid for full retro pay. Maybe you see contracting out all the overhaul facilities, stores or facilities maintenance to get that retro pay. Without the TWU, all the overhaul facilities, stores and facilities maintenance would be gone. Evidently the loss of livelihoods is the best solution for the enhancement of the remaining few according to you.
TWU in lower case is child’s play.
kukuy,
kukuy,
Child's play? Coming from someone afraid to post their real identity. Point taken.
Political clout, no community clout and no financial backing? Compared to the twu's political clout? Compared to the twu's community clout? Compared to the twu's financial backing? Points well taken. Allow me to clarify your points.
Political clout: COPE money used to support ELECTED government officials that have done what to support my craft and class? Be specific here. Post those individuals whom our political clout is to be thanked for. I'd also like to thank those whom the twu has given money for but voted on Bill's/issues that have harmed my craft and class.
Community clout: Buying tickets to sporting events helps us how?
Financial backing: As in money to print colored flyer inserts for our voting ballots? You know, the ones urging us to vote yes on the t/a?
You really are in a world of your own if you think the twu has democracy and accountability. Explain how just those in our craft and class can recall an international officer.
You didn’t have the power to make any change while in office... This is the best quote. So much for real change from within. By the way, post here for all to read your ignorance on exactly what it is I failed to change? Make change in the international? Correct there boogieman. I NEVER had any illusion of changeing the unchangeable. However, I and those I ran with have changed for the better the LOCAL which we belong to.
Without the TWU, all the overhaul facilities, stores and facilities maintenance would be gone. Now THIS has to be the best quote of all time! You mean overhaul like MCI? Point well taken kukuy.
Evidently the loss of livelihoods is the best solution for the enhancement of the remaining few according to you. Again, your intelligence is off the charts!
GO AMP!
TWU in lower case is child’s play.
kukuy,
kukuy,
Child's play? Coming from someone afraid to post their real identity. Point taken.
Political clout, no community clout and no financial backing? Compared to the twu's political clout? Compared to the twu's community clout? Compared to the twu's financial backing? Points well taken. Allow me to clarify your points.
Political clout: COPE money used to support ELECTED government officials that have done what to support my craft and class? Be specific here. Post those individuals whom our political clout is to be thanked for. I'd also like to thank those whom the twu has given money for but voted on Bill's/issues that have harmed my craft and class.
Community clout: Buying tickets to sporting events helps us how?
Financial backing: As in money to print colored flyer inserts for our voting ballots? You know, the ones urging us to vote yes on the t/a?
You really are in a world of your own if you think the twu has democracy and accountability. Explain how just those in our craft and class can recall an international officer.
You didn’t have the power to make any change while in office... This is the best quote. So much for real change from within. By the way, post here for all to read your ignorance on exactly what it is I failed to change? Make change in the international? Correct there boogieman. I NEVER had any illusion of changeing the unchangeable. However, I and those I ran with have changed for the better the LOCAL which we belong to.
Without the TWU, all the overhaul facilities, stores and facilities maintenance would be gone. Now THIS has to be the best quote of all time! You mean overhaul like MCI? Point well taken kukuy.
Evidently the loss of livelihoods is the best solution for the enhancement of the remaining few according to you. Again, your intelligence is off the charts!
GO AMP!
High Speed Steel
Veteran
- Feb 14, 2004
- 1,375
- 136
LMAO,
Look at this...This is a guy who wants to wait and not continue the negotiation process...I guess he didn't notice the authority he gave when he made his mark..LOL
http://airlineforums.com/topic/49244-aa-watching-twu-vote/page__view__findpost__p__754387
Frank Szabo
Veteran
I'm left wondering how much input the company had re: what they're going to present to the mediator. The previous presentation and vote was on a company-written TA with no argument from the "negotiator".
Somebody wake me up when something of interest happens.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Keep in mind, the mediator is just that: a MEDIATOR...his/her job is to move the process along and try to bring the two sides closer to an agreement. He can make recommendations and offer solutions, but neither party has to budge. It is when his job is done and an impasse is declared that the more "serious" negotiations begin.
I can tell you this.....The unions next proposal will not disappoint! At which point we will no longer be called bricks, but huge slabs of concrete!
So TWU is going to go back and ask for big dollars now after one quarterly profit? Somehow I don't see AA going for that, especially when giving in to "restore and more" would cost tens of times more than AA's recent profit.
But I'm definitely curious to see what TWU comes up with.
But I'm definitely curious to see what TWU comes up with.
How do you figure that? We gave up $315 million from over 16000 workers, now we only have 11000 workers, so the most it could cost to restore what they took away would be $216 million at post concession 2003 rates, we got back 7% so knock another $22 million off that, divide that by 4(qtr) it would only come out to $48 million per quarter.
So restore would cost a third of their quarterly profit that they pulled in while getting a new plane every 8 days.
One quarter where they couldnt burn or hide it fast enough is more than enough for me!
Bob, without examining your numbers, I was talking about the whole pie: pilots and FAs too. Because I can guarantee that if one group succeeds in restoring the 2003 concessions all the way, the other two groups would rather shut the company down than take less. So the profit AA turned was good, but unfortunately not good enough to restore the billions AA'ers gave up in 2003.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
FFCA,
No sarcasm towards you but, "Boo, hoo for AA." Because AA CLAIMS they can't pay all work groups they raped and plundered from while stuffing their pockets we are to just say, "That's okay. We understand.". I don't think so.
What you and others who defend AA's point of view don't accept is that even after returning what is OWED us we are still at a loss considering inflation. But returning what was BORROWED from us is a good start.
I don't trust AA management when they speak. When they do speak I will always return to "shAAred sAAcrifice" and remember that they care NOTHING for labor and only the lining of their pockets.
Something that I would like our negotiators to consider:
1) Having the c/c position turned into a supervisor position, that way the company can have who they want in a leadership role, and have no excuse if they don't hire the right mechanic for that position.
2) Freezing our pensions as they are now, and getting a matching 401k.
For giving up these huge items, I would expect to be paid more then SWA, UPS or FedEx.
1) Having the c/c position turned into a supervisor position, that way the company can have who they want in a leadership role, and have no excuse if they don't hire the right mechanic for that position.
2) Freezing our pensions as they are now, and getting a matching 401k.
For giving up these huge items, I would expect to be paid more then SWA, UPS or FedEx.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
- 9,428
Owed & borrowed might apply if the cuts in 2003 were intended to be temporary.
But they weren't. Permanent structural change is what everyone was told then. No snapbacks. Nothing borrowed. Nothing owed.
The company is bringing in billions more with around 40,000 less workers to share it with. M&R lost around 5000, other groups obviously lost just as much if not more so full restore across the board could not cost more than 60% of what we gave up. The company would still be ahead because they are paying 40,000 less people, those jobs more than pay for full restore. We wouldnt even be touching the extra billions they are taking in.
Hopeful,
The assigned NMB Negotiator controls the process of negotiations between the parties: there is no NMB requirement that the process goes forward.
The NMB can put us on ice or put us on a fast track: they are ultimately able to manipulate the priocess under which the negotiations are to occur by freezing it or moving it forward despite the overall conditions within the industry over which they maintain control.
The question will revolve around the nature of the individual placed by the NMB as controlling the negotiations and the direction that individual receives from their chain of command.
I do not know the political affiliation of the individual the NMB placed in charge of these negotiations.
Given the recent electoral results: the current administration should be bending their guidance in a direction helpful to labor; but given the abject failure of the Democratic Majority to address the RLA failure of status quo with respect to Section 1113 of the bankruptcy code, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Having said that: the rejection of the AA/TWU TA was important because other RLA Airline contracts are being ratified far above the numbers for which the TWU settled.
I agree 100%. In addition, the rejection of the TA (along with other recent events) did more to change the way the TWU looks at its members than my efforts over the last 10+ years have done. Lets face it, if you are pulling down $150k + a year, are unaffected by the concessions and cant be voted out by the members and the members keep accepting bad deals it must be pretty easy to sit back and look at people like me and say "He doesnt speak for the members, look at how they vote". The rejection gave us more power.
When the TA was accepted by the committee despite the objections of some of us on the committee one local President who also has an International title declared "90% of my members will accept this deal", 2/3rds voted against it and removed him from office. 94% of our members (Local 562) rejected the deal, who had a better pulse on their membership?
In my two years I've seen many heads change, in some cases even where the members of some Locals voted YES to accept the deal they later voted to remove the rep that voted YES to bring back the contract. Some see this as contradictory, I dont. When the TA was accepted by the committtee I had warned the International that a YES vote was not neccisarily an endorsement of TWU representation but more of a vote of no confidence in the TWU to bring us back up to industry standards and that if this passed the same people who voted YES would vote for any new representation that presented itself.
While I wish that we had a higher rejection rate on the line overall, where more and more people are expressing their dissatisfaction with both the TWU and AMR by simply leaving the company, this was perhaps the most significant (positive) vote I've seen at AA since I hired on. I have no doubt that many of those who voted YES did so out of desperation, not satisfaction and were concerned that a new deal would simply be one where the company strips money from the line to get a yes vote out of the bases. We cant allow that to happen, the needs of both must be met and we have to stick together in order to do that. The base and line must work together for as Ben Franklin said "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately".
