Res Judicata
Veteran
That's not the complete truth. There's a little caveat that set a time line if one side decided to take the ball and go home. Exactly what happened. The Judge will decide what "Ain't gonna happen"
U.S. Pilot Labor Thread 9/28 - 10/05
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That's not the complete truth. There's a little caveat that set a time line if one side decided to take the ball and go home. Exactly what happened. The Judge will decide what "Ain't gonna happen"
E
EastUS
Guest
When?
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Very quickly if it is dismissed. Years and years and years if the judge allows it to go to trial.
oldiebutgoody
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I don't see what you are arguing. If it's a contract covering both sides that requires ratification, then I don't see the difference. You're splitting hairs. Oh, and the TA never directly mentions the Nic, since it was signed before the Nic was spewed.
My guess for your second question would probably be the PSA award, since it went the smoothest, and was strictly DOH.
Anything "completed" within, say, the last three years? Did you happen to find those two fully ratified merger agreements, one by the east and one by the west, both signed off by ALPA?
boeingtamer
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The new DOH based list is officially presented to the company. Perhaps we can see the list with conditions and restrictions soon and put a lot of West minds at ease. Much of the West rhetoric has been fear driven. Hopefully the facts will convince the reasonable majority in the West that they may be able to live with this compromise list.
Merger Committee Update for Tuesday, September 30th, 2008
This is a special Merger Committee update for Tuesday, September 30th 2008. Today your Merger Committee along with your Negotiating Advisory Committee, Professional Negotiator and Merger Counsel, met with Company representatives at the Company’s Tempe headquarters. The purpose of the meeting was to pass to the Company our date of hire seniority list along with a comprehensive set of conditions and restrictions. Although much work remains to be done, all US Airways pilots can take a great deal of pride in the fact that we have taken another large step towards the creation of a Date of Hire airline that recognizes the service of all of our pilots in a fair and equitable fashion.
Merger Committee Update for Tuesday, September 30th, 2008
This is a special Merger Committee update for Tuesday, September 30th 2008. Today your Merger Committee along with your Negotiating Advisory Committee, Professional Negotiator and Merger Counsel, met with Company representatives at the Company’s Tempe headquarters. The purpose of the meeting was to pass to the Company our date of hire seniority list along with a comprehensive set of conditions and restrictions. Although much work remains to be done, all US Airways pilots can take a great deal of pride in the fact that we have taken another large step towards the creation of a Date of Hire airline that recognizes the service of all of our pilots in a fair and equitable fashion.
electricjet98
Senior
Yes, it will be interesting to see how "conditions & restrictions" protect the west from furlough, something that was absent at AWA prior to the merger. DOH, without "conditions & restrictions" to specifically prevent it, would allow an east pilot to insulate himself from furlough and instead, force it upon a west pilot. A windfall that would allow the east to sacrafice the west, purely as the result of the merger and not where the east's career expectations were heading prior to the merger!
I can't wait to see the list. I will venture to guess it is in fact NOT a true date of hire list!
Res Judicata
Veteran
How proud the self appointed leaders must be today. Ironically, today is the day that several West pilots are getting furloughed OUT OF SENIORITY. No problem for USAPA, no grievance filed by "the union". No mention of this fact in any update thus far. Why?
The Hypocrisy is shining so bright Stevie Wonder would have to shade his eyes.
luvthe9
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Jumpseat Committee Update
October 1, 2008
West Jumpseat Disclosure Form
The Jumpseat Committee has recently received several reports of East pilots being required to sign an UNAUTHORIZED Jumpseat Disclosure Form before a West pilot would allow them to occupy the cockpit jumpseat. This form states several conditions and restrictions that the jumpseater must abide by, or risk being denied access to the jumpseat or removed from the aircraft at a nearest suitable airport if the failure to comply occurs in flight. It also states a copy will be kept on file in the PHX Chief Pilot’s Office. Neither the Company nor the PHX Chief Pilots Office sanctions this form and no copies have been kept on file. Furthermore, the PHX Chief Pilot has assured us that this Pilot has been counseled and will (reportedly) no longer be using this form. Please contact your Jumpseat Committee if you find this unauthorized form still exists on the line.
New Jumpseat Travel Request Form
The new jumpseat travel request form has a section under “Agent Use Only†for Pilot “Time of Check-inâ€. This box only applies to Pilots who do not have a reservation in the IVR system, or Pilots of other carriers who are issued the jumpseat on a first come, first serve basis.
The Jumpseat Committee has asked the Company to look into the feasibility of a system where the jumpseat form is deleted completely. The agent’s job would simply be to enter the Pilot information in CASS. If approved, cockpit access is granted, if not, a seat would be issued in the cabin. All jumpseaters would report to the Captain. US Airways pilots would still be able to reserve the jumpseat via the IVR system.
Help Us, Help You
Your Jumpseat Committee is here to help you, the pilots of U S Airways! Our goal is for jumpseating (both on and off-line) to be a pleasant, hassle-free experience for everyone involved. But we need your assistance - please:
KEEP POLITICS AND PERSONAL AGENDAS OUT OF THE FLIGHT DECK AND OFF THE JUMPSEAT
REPORT ANY PROBLEMS IMMEDIATELY TO US WITH AS MANY DETAILS AS POSSIBLE (Names, Flight #’s, Dates, etc.)
Unfortunately most of the issues that we have heard about recently have been either second or third-hand accounts. Failing to notify us only allows improper and unprofessional behavior to continue, which is then past onto your fellow pilots to deal with. We will help you, if you allow us to.
Jumpseaters Left Behind
Pilots, when you can please make a sweep of the boarding area to make sure we do not leave a jumpseater behind. We have had a few reports from other carriers of our agents not allowing jumpseaters onboard for various reasons - they are not on our jumpseat list (we CAN carry any FAR Part 121 carrier on domestic flights), or they were not listed (listing is not required), or too late for check-in.
October 1, 2008
West Jumpseat Disclosure Form
The Jumpseat Committee has recently received several reports of East pilots being required to sign an UNAUTHORIZED Jumpseat Disclosure Form before a West pilot would allow them to occupy the cockpit jumpseat. This form states several conditions and restrictions that the jumpseater must abide by, or risk being denied access to the jumpseat or removed from the aircraft at a nearest suitable airport if the failure to comply occurs in flight. It also states a copy will be kept on file in the PHX Chief Pilot’s Office. Neither the Company nor the PHX Chief Pilots Office sanctions this form and no copies have been kept on file. Furthermore, the PHX Chief Pilot has assured us that this Pilot has been counseled and will (reportedly) no longer be using this form. Please contact your Jumpseat Committee if you find this unauthorized form still exists on the line.
New Jumpseat Travel Request Form
The new jumpseat travel request form has a section under “Agent Use Only†for Pilot “Time of Check-inâ€. This box only applies to Pilots who do not have a reservation in the IVR system, or Pilots of other carriers who are issued the jumpseat on a first come, first serve basis.
The Jumpseat Committee has asked the Company to look into the feasibility of a system where the jumpseat form is deleted completely. The agent’s job would simply be to enter the Pilot information in CASS. If approved, cockpit access is granted, if not, a seat would be issued in the cabin. All jumpseaters would report to the Captain. US Airways pilots would still be able to reserve the jumpseat via the IVR system.
Help Us, Help You
Your Jumpseat Committee is here to help you, the pilots of U S Airways! Our goal is for jumpseating (both on and off-line) to be a pleasant, hassle-free experience for everyone involved. But we need your assistance - please:
KEEP POLITICS AND PERSONAL AGENDAS OUT OF THE FLIGHT DECK AND OFF THE JUMPSEAT
REPORT ANY PROBLEMS IMMEDIATELY TO US WITH AS MANY DETAILS AS POSSIBLE (Names, Flight #’s, Dates, etc.)
Unfortunately most of the issues that we have heard about recently have been either second or third-hand accounts. Failing to notify us only allows improper and unprofessional behavior to continue, which is then past onto your fellow pilots to deal with. We will help you, if you allow us to.
Jumpseaters Left Behind
Pilots, when you can please make a sweep of the boarding area to make sure we do not leave a jumpseater behind. We have had a few reports from other carriers of our agents not allowing jumpseaters onboard for various reasons - they are not on our jumpseat list (we CAN carry any FAR Part 121 carrier on domestic flights), or they were not listed (listing is not required), or too late for check-in.
E
EastUS
Guest
"The Hypocrisy is shining so bright Stevie Wonder would have to shade his eyes".....Whew! It certainly is:
My all time favorite quote from your noble Leonidas: "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". There are countless variations of the same theme that've been posted within the past year. Folks..you just cant make this kind of insane, greed-soaked hypocrisy up.....
A compromise was attempted at Wye River during Alpa's reign that would have recognized length of service, and the results would have afforded a scenario where west pilots wouldn't currently be suffering furloughs. The west "take" on that's evidenced by nic4us's recent posting = "I was not at Wye River, if I were in a position to accept a deal I would have told ALPA and the east mec were to go, long before there was a meeting." Naturally though..ANY/ALL woes ever suffered out west are the fault and doings of anyone but themselves.....
Let's now proceed to the standard west BS, wherein it's proper to attempt the maximum in sabotage towards the union at all levels, and "naturally" to avoid payment of any dues or maintenance fees until forced to do so. It goes without saying that any west pilots stepping up to actually provide any useful input and participation is utterly anethmatic to the west.....but "naturally"...west concerns must be made the ONLY true concerns for the entire pilot group. Nothing new to see there folks...move along 😉
Res Judicata "No one will be fired for not paying USAPA .......... and since USAPA is a marginalized annoyance of a "union"....
Now..let's briefly examine actual furlough reality as it exists today....if we may.
In order to address the furlough mess; said "marginalized annoyance" has investigated scope issues in depth, and has greivances set for as speedy an arbitration as possible. The west, meanwhile, merely waves pom poms for some imaginary injunction's granting and devastating DFR litigation, that'll magically fix everything out west..and assures all that "the judge will say what ain't gonna' happen", but can't begin to speculate as to when or even in what year this miraculous event will ever even possibly transpire. One "side" is actually taking some useful action. The other's merely busying themselves within the confines of some self-obsessed, delusional, tribal dance ritual befitting of at best, Whirling Dervishes...
nycbusdriver
Veteran
"Self appointed leaders"?
The slate of leaders was legally elected on April 17, 2008 by a majority of the pilots. (Did you miss that bit of "res judicata," Res Judicata?) If anyone had objection to the slate of officers legally elected that day, he/she should have voted for ALPA or not vote at all.
Still using that very worn out statement, eastus? Geez! Get some new material! For someone who claims to be intelligent you do have trouble coming up with an original thought. The only true hypocrisy shown on this board is from yourself and a handful of your equally unenlightened cronies. I do believe that Leonidas has moved on and above that kind of statement. You should too.
E
EastUS
Guest
The evidence to support that is what? ..and shown where? :blink: ..and we won't even address behaviors ala jumpseats/etc here 🙄 I've precious little concern with what you "believe", and I'll base my estimations on empirical evidence instead.
If you're embarrassed by the vast quantities of such self-obsessed, "noble" sentiments as have been so frequently expressed when supporting the west's self proclaimed, and I quote; "Righteous Positon"..well..That's YOUR problem........ Perhaps you should consider actually cleaning up your truly sorry act out there, rather than just issuing forth yet more fetid hot air?...Just a thought.
I can't help but notice that you had nothing to say regarding: "In order to address the furlough mess; said "marginalized annoyance" has investigated scope issues in depth, and has greivances set for as speedy an arbitration as possible. The west, meanwhile, merely waves pom poms for some imaginary injunction's granting and devastating DFR litigation, that'll magically fix everything out west..and assures all that "the judge will say what ain't gonna' happen", but can't begin to speculate as to when or even in what year this miraculous event will ever even possibly transpire. One "side" is actually taking some useful action. The other's merely busying themselves within the confines of some self-obsessed, delusional, tribal dance ritual befitting of at best, Whirling Dervishes... "
So..when can we all expect the magic salvation to all west pilot ills to ever be birthed by the mighty "Army of Leonidas"? You've adamantly set yourself apart from, and even "at war" with the union's actions at every turn. I must hope that, for all that's been promised to the west pilots by the "leadership" out there, and all the money even thus far taken..that you've got some far better and more effective plans to benefit the situation of furloughs and all things than we've yet seen......
electricjet98
Senior
Supposedly; 20 year fences, east gets all the upgrades but they hope to make the west feel better by letting us have all the furloughs!
How typical of fo bradford and crew.
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