U.S. Pilot Labor Thread 9/28 - 10/05

[Hawkhunter]

Well please help this (deleted by moderator) reconcile what the Transition Agreement says regarding "new hires." I do not believe the argument that "soon the new hires will be furloughed too" is relevant. What is relevant is the fact USAPA campaigned on seniority! "Seniority Matters" was the mantra if I recall correctly. So just whose seniority actually matters? Frankly I believe the DFR case brought against USAPA is a clear winner. How exactly can USAPA shirk its duty to uphold and enforce the Transition Agreement? If the T/A is followed it may just keep me employed a little longer and may even help me and my family ride it out altogether!

Seperate ops seperate list, pretty simple isnt it. Same reason the East has LOA93. So, from what I read you do believe in DOH?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Seperate ops seperate list, pretty simple isnt it. Same reason the East has LOA93. So, from what I read you do believe in DOH?

Separate ops? Yes. Separate contract? Thank god. Separate lists? Yes, but:

There is a third, shared list of new hires. Pretty simple concept that furloughs should begin occurring in seniority order from that list. And that is not happening - west pilots are suffering in vastly greater numbers than the east.

So, where is the usap support for the west pilots who are being furloughed? There is none - period.

Just exactly what is the usap DOH stance now? How many more pilots is Stevie B. going to dare to P.O. before his throne gets yanked out from underneath his shiny little bum? His union is begining to broadcast its colors loud and clear: it is all about the east and nothing but the east.

Do you see the irony here? Of course not.

By the way, the google toolbar has a wonderful spell-check function. This is certainly something you should check in to......just trying to help.

 

[machtuck]

Separate ops? Yes. Separate contract? Thank god. Separate lists? Yes, but:

There is a third, shared list of new hires. Pretty simple concept that furloughs should begin occurring in seniority order from that list. And that is not happening - west pilots are suffering in vastly greater numbers than the east.

So, where is the usap support for the west pilots who are being furloughed? There is none - period.

Just exactly what is the usap DOH stance now? How many more pilots is Stevie B. going to dare to P.O. before his throne gets yanked out from underneath his shiny little bum? His union is begining to broadcast its colors loud and clear: it is all about the east and nothing but the east.

Do you see the irony here? Of course not.

By the way, the google toolbar has a wonderful spell-check function. This is certainly something you should check in to......just trying to help.

Q) "Where is the usap support...?"

A) In the same drawer as the west pilots dues are...when you find it, let us all know.
Further, YOUR UNION has filed a grievance on this issue...or does that even matter....hmmmm

You have little room to complain about representation when you are either not an applicant yet, or are member in bad standing, or somewhere in-between.
Yes, YOUR UNION HAS filed the proper grievances on behalf on the west pilots who so vehemently hate the very protector that they are soliciting "protections" from.

You guys are something....not sure what, but something.

 

[ussnark]

I'd bet my bottom dollar that if it was the East getting slammed with the majority of furloughs USAPA wouldn't be so content to do and say nothing.

That is a bet you would lose.

Considering how few west pilots are "supporting" USAPA, how would the representative union know how best to represent those furloughed? Those being furloughed have, apparently, gone to AOL, giving their hard earned bucks to someone who cannot produce anything for years, if ever.

In addition to drafting court statements, would not the west putative "union" serve it's membership far better by drafting letters to USAPA, at least trying to help the west furloughs? From my point of view, it seems AOL has thrown all furloughees, present and near future, under their ego bus. Sad, indeed.

Seems to me that USAPA has a far better chance of leveling the situation in the shortest possible time, legitimacy being one of their assets.

 

[fodase]

A big thank you to usapa, the passing of the new seniority list to the company is a great help in our litigation and will be included in the reply for motion to dismiss, thanks again.

 

[machtuck]

You're quite welcome.

Have you sent in a bona-fide application to the union yet? If not, all of your "data-collection" is moot...if you don't work here, what can it matter?

If you have applied for membership, are you current?

If not, ditto.

Better call AOL to see what to do next.

(maybe they can start an airline for you to work at)

And, no, I'm not in any official capacity at the union (yet) but I am one of many who are completely fed up with all the west BS.

Better pick a side soon...just make sure that your AOL friends have a COBRA fund set up for you.

 

[Sir Lurk-A-Lot]

That is a bet you would lose.

Considering how few west pilots are "supporting" USAPA, how would the representative union know how best to represent those furloughed? Those being furloughed have, apparently, gone to AOL, giving their hard earned bucks to someone who cannot produce anything for years, if ever.

In addition to drafting court statements, would not the west putative "union" serve it's membership far better by drafting letters to USAPA, at least trying to help the west furloughs? From my point of view, it seems AOL has thrown all furloughees, present and near future, under their ego bus. Sad, indeed.

Seems to me that USAPA has a far better chance of leveling the situation in the shortest possible time, legitimacy being one of their assets.

Considering your union has over 600 West members, I think it isn't too hard to figure out that USAPA should consider holding a domicile meeting in PHX to "know how best to represent" those pilots.

On another note, what are the West pilots going to do when there in a contract to vote on? Stand by the sidelines or actually become members in good standing to have a voice?

 

[machtuck]

Considering your union has over 600 West members, I think it isn't too hard to figure out that USAPA should consider holding a domicile meeting in PHX to "know how best to represent" those pilots.

On another note, what are the West pilots going to do when there in a contract to vote on? Stand by the sidelines or actually become members in good standing to have a voice?

Nice flame-bait..there is no need to go to PHX...they have made their position crystal clear...where have you been?

If and when any number of PHX "members" consummate their full membership duties, (pay dues, get current...drop frivolous lawsuits) then perhaps a road trip is in order...until then, just look up the youtube videos..you'll see the participatory nature of our west friends...

Item 2) Our west friends will have no choice but to watch their NMB sanctioned union vote any way they want to...with or without their participation or input..just the way they seem to want it...

(personally, I'm OK with that, since they obviously are)

Forward any and all questions to their "collective bargaining agent"...AOL.

 

[Sir Lurk-A-Lot]

If and when any number of PHX "members" consummate their full membership duties, (pay dues, get current...drop frivolous lawsuits) then perhaps a road trip is in order

Perhaps you say!?!

More like required. I may not be an expert in labor law but I would imagine that since the NMB has certified your union to be the CBA of US Airways pilots then said union is obligated to conduct union business and represent their members as written in the bylaws.

 

[machtuck]

Perhaps you say!?!

More like required. I may not be an expert in labor law but I would imagine that since the NMB has certified your union to be the CBA of US Airways pilots then said union is obligated to conduct union business and represent their members as written in the bylaws.

OK...you sure you want to go here with me?..

OK...whatever.

There has been a solicitation for "status reps" for LAS and PHX for about 3 months or so...NO responses from "geographically or domiciled members"...

This makes it VERY easy for USAPA....simply APPOINT an "interim" rep ...just like the 5 or 6 other "appointed west reps"...

Surely you don't subscribe to the premise that the west dissenters can paralyze the union by their voluntary "inactivity"...do you?

If so, you are as mistaken as they are.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Q) "Where is the usap support...?"

A) In the same drawer as the west pilots dues are...when you find it, let us all know.
Further, YOUR UNION has filed a grievance on this issue...or does that even matter....hmmmm

Care to provide proof that a grievance filed to equalize east/west furloughs has been filed by usapa? Hmmmmm?

Oh, there has been a lawsuit filed - but Stevie B. is a defendant in that, not a plaintiff.

Nope - usapa has simply been itself all along - tilted eastward. So, why should I or anyone else pay dues to an organization which was founded upon bankrupt morals and which is operating with a destructive adjenda against me and my fellow westyz? I'll start paying when the Nic starts flying.

 

[machtuck]

Care to provide proof that a grievance filed to equalize east/west furloughs has been filed by usapa? Hmmmmm?

Oh, there has been a lawsuit filed - but Stevie B. is a defendant in that, not a plaintiff.

Nope - usapa has simply been itself all along - tilted eastward. So, why should I or anyone else pay dues to an organization which was founded upon bankrupt morals and which is operating with a destructive adjenda against me and my fellow westyz? I'll start paying when the Nic starts flying.

Pal, you are asking the wrong cat to do your homework for you...

USAPA has filed a grievance for those....uh...ummm.."friends" out west who are FUR out of seniority. The fact that you may not have access to that info is telling and academic to me.
Personally, I couldn't give two $*T# about it..

If you NEVER pay one penny to this NMB union it suits me just fine...you will dissappear like the others' and be done with...or, you can go the other way and maybe save your a&&....I couldn't possibly care less.

If you want a shoulder to cry on...use AWAPPA or AOL.

Otherwise, get out of the way.

 

[exB717Flyer]

That is a bet you would lose.

"It's what they DO, not what they SAY." I don't believe you.

Considering how few west pilots are "supporting" USAPA, how would the representative union know how best to represent those furloughed?

As you well know membership status is irrelevent. USAPA by law must defend all US Airways pilots.

Those being furloughed have, apparently, gone to AOL, giving their hard earned bucks to someone who cannot produce anything for years, if ever.

Those not being furloughed have done the same. The wheels of justice turn slowly. Excepting the judge's dismissal of USAPA's suit against us, of course. That one was just too obvious.

In addition to drafting court statements, would not the west putative "union" serve it's membership far better by drafting letters to USAPA, at least trying to help the west furloughs?

AWAPPA is not a putative union nor does it purport to be anything other than an organization to help defend us from the East's egregious actions. Now you speak of "letters"? You think all we have to do is write USAPA some letters and they'll magically have a change of heart? Right.

From my point of view, it seems AOL has thrown all furloughees, present and near future, under their ego bus.

Like I would care what you think of AOL, but in any case AOL is pursuing the lawsuits and that's all they do. What does ego have to do with anything?

Seems to me that USAPA has a far better chance of leveling the situation in the shortest possible time, legitimacy being one of their assets.

If legitimacy is USAPA's best asset then they are indeed without assets.

 

[machtuck]

repeat, please...your voice was muffled by a slurping sound....

Uh...the nipple is dry and gone....

time to find a "new friend"...

or not.

 

[traderjake]

(maybe they can start an airline for you to work at)

How many pilots have been fired for not paying dues?

Zero.