UA AND US Merger Talks

[aafsc]

Ever notice that those who are the most vocal supporters of DOH are the ones who work (or worked) for a failing (or failed) legacy airline with inferior or shrunken route structures and a very senior workforce with little or no prospects for career enhancement. Injustice would be when the employees of a failed defunct company replace the employees of the highly successful company who acquired the failed company's assets in a garage sale. What TWASkyliner considers justice would have been a career holocaust for nAAtives. As far as UA/US goes, I can't see how UA would really benefit. PHL is too close to IAD , they would have to dump a bunch of DCA slots, and PHX is too close to DEN. The only thing that MIGHT be of value to UA is CLT; even that can be questioned because of IAD. It is either one of two possibilities, if these merger rumors are even true.

1. Using this to get CO to merge with UA. or 2. Tilton is wiliing to merge with anyone so he can stuff his pockets and not caring at all about the long term future of UA. There is no doubt that UA/CO is an infinitely superior combination for both of them. If UA/CO do merge where does this leave US? In my opinion, US would be the third wheel; it would just hang out in star until it collapses and then a merged UA/CO, as well as others, can pick up the pieces in a Chapter 7 without all the baggage (employees, planes, buildings, hangars, debt, etc.). The value of US assets do not exceed the aforementioned liabilities by a wide enough margin for UA, (or any other airline) to justify a merger with US. Another thing to consider would be the actions of the would be acquirers workforce. All one has to do is read 767jetz post. He makes it clear where the UA employees stand and I can assure you the AA employees would feel the same if there were RUMORS of a AA/US merger. It is quite simple really, US employees (like the TWA employees), see a corporate transaction as salvation and as a means for very rapid career advancement via DOH at the expense of the employees of the other airline.

 

[Borescope]

Will this merger reinstate my pension ..... NO
Will this meger land me health care benefits when I retire .... NO
Will I get the money back I lost on US Airways stock in my 401k when the government screwed up the last UA/US merger attempt ..... NO

It's hard to get excited about it?

You don't have to get excited.......... You have NO control over what will happen. As someone else said in a post. "Just Relax and enjoy the ride"

 

[N965VJ]

i think in the event of a merger , the best way to put aside dissent and not make the mistakes of prior mergers is to simply do DOH for every unionized work group ... it's fair , it's fast , it's effective ...

Go tell that to the UA ALPA MEC, and don't forget to wear your Nomex shorts!

 

[Borescope]

When Sully and Jeff landed in the Hudson, USAPA responded expertly....without your dues. When USAPA dealt with fuel school, they also did it without your dues. And so on.

Now USAPA's leadership, elected at large by the membership, will make the proper decisions going forward......without the input of non member pilots (ring a bell?)

As to capitulation, you forget why USAPA is here.....the "washing of hands" was an ALPA behavior.

RR

Can you say BYE BYE, USAPA? If this merger goes through you will all be back in ALPA and the east pilots may then become the "Non Members".

 

[Poug Darker]

It's a wonder that UAUA is still in business. Stocks under $2, balance sheet is a wreck. Analysts were predicting they would run out of cash as early as January of this year.
This is not about the salvation of USAirways. This is the survival of United. Just because they have a few bigger airplanes and go a few more places doesn't mean they are superior in a business sense. There is a reason CO doesn't want them. Doug is being the white knight, not the dark horse.
US doesn't need a merger right now. United, on the other hand, might.
Food for thought. No extra charge.
Cheers.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

It appears this whole thing is a ploy to get CAL tot he table. US brings nothing to the table for UAL or AMR that they don't already have.

this crossed my mind too

 

[Borescope]

It's a wonder that UAUA is still in business. Stocks under $2, balance sheet is a wreck. Analysts were predicting they would run out of cash as early as January of this year.
This is not about the salvation of USAirways. This is the survival of United. Just because they have a few bigger airplanes and go a few more places doesn't mean they are superior in a business sense. There is a reason CO doesn't want them. Doug is being the white knight, not the dark horse.
US doesn't need a merger right now. United, on the other hand, might.
Food for thought. No extra charge.
Cheers.

You obviously don't pay to much attention to the stock market. UAUA is almost 3X that of US, over the $20 mark. I think you may have it backwards. US needs to find a chair before the music stops, or everyone else may be picking up the scraps.

 

[Bear96]

HuH???? Clt is at least seven hours down the road. . .

That's a pretty slow plane.

 

[DCaf]

It is quite simple really, US employees (like the TWA employees), see a corporate transaction as salvation and as a means for very rapid career advancement via DOH at the expense of the employees of the other airline.

Your keen insight into the mindset of US employees is Kreskin-like, but way off. The big boys always think their littler brethren are for ever drooling to hook up, but I don't see that. If it makes you feel all-powerful, well great. And why is everyone so up in arms, excited, rabid, snotty? This is only a rumor (though probably true), and only has about 900 hurdles to leap before coming to fruition, any one of which can scuttle the whole thing.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I have to mention that this bill was spearheaded by the former TWA f/a's in the hopes that what the APFA did to us would'nt be done to someone else. I think there are 26 former TWA flight attendants currently working for AA.

If what you say is true, then those ex-TWAers are heroes. What happened to them should never happen to any work group. And if their last hurrah was to successfully fight for legislation that imposes some decency and fairness to future seniority integration, then they heroically punctuated their long and illustrious legacy by standing up for what is right. What class act!

I agree. the ex-TWA F/A's are definitely heroes in my book for lobbying to get that law passed. Very classy! Thank you.

 

[goodgirl37]

It's a wonder that UAUA is still in business. Stocks under $2, balance sheet is a wreck. Analysts were predicting they would run out of cash as early as January of this year.
This is not about the salvation of USAirways. This is the survival of United. Just because they have a few bigger airplanes and go a few more places doesn't mean they are superior in a business sense. There is a reason CO doesn't want them. Doug is being the white knight, not the dark horse.
US doesn't need a merger right now. United, on the other hand, might.
Food for thought. No extra charge.
Cheers.

Maybe you should rethink, US is the one that almost went delinquent on loan covenants last quarter, and if you would refer to Doug Parker in his crew news, he states "UAL isn't going anywhere"... UAL isnt in the best situation, but it can stay afloat MUCH MUCH longer than US can, from assets alone. US has zero owned assets. This could be a ploy to bring CAL to the table as well like one other poster said. Either way, you should pray that the US mgmt team stays in AZ where they belong, this wont be an easy one, but in the end we should all look out for each other, I dont see US employees as inferior, but your mgmt team has nothing i would want to come close to.

 

[ChockJockey]

This is not about the salvation of USAirways. This is the survival of United.

And herein the seeds are sown for the next incarnation of the Who Saved Who argument.

Can't blame people for wanting to protect what they've worked for regardless of who's uniform they've been wearing. It's been hard enough for folks at US and UA to try and keep what's theirs as it is, we have to be aware that management(s) are going to try to "synergize" the hell out of us by slicing here and snipping there. In this environment it's all too easy to retrench into the little camps we're familiar with, but in the face of this there will be no safety in clinging to the eroding identities of dead airlines.

AWA and the old US are gone; if this merger goes forward the East/West paradigm is going to get blown out of the water and a decent lot of us might just find out that the only good it's done us is leave us with our pants down when reality comes knocking at the door.

Crying, moaning, spitting, scratching, fighting, litigating and digging heels into the ground has proven entirely ineffective. If everyone plans on coming to the table with chips on their shoulders then we're guaranteed additional years of bitterness and infighting all to the benefit of management and the detriment of ourselves and those we work side by side with.

There's a lot to be afraid of right now seeing as there's so much speculation and so few details. I might be entirely naive and stupid but instead of seeing this as a guaranteed failure and bloodbath I think we need to drop the baggage, curtail the pride, suck it up and when the time warrants it, extend our hands across the way to our complimentary workgroups in UA and put some hard work in restoring the influence of labor and coming up with real solutions and a gameplan for success.

No one here doubts that any such merger has the potential to be monstrously complicated and painful, but in five years hence I'd rather be working at a healthy and functional carrier than having internet fights and workplace animosity with my involuntary coworkers. This bitterness and baggage is exhausting and soul dragging, and I haven't even been in the game that long; it's the Kool-Aid we've all been making and passing around. We should no longer accommodate or pay heed to those that would rather obsess over fading injustices than plan for and work towards a better future.

Stay in the know, get educated, get prepared, get involved...I know I will. Better this than waiting for lawyers to hash it out years from now. Am I the only one that feels this way? Optimism is refreshing even if it's unfounded. If this merger is a case of out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire I'd rather be tap dancing on the top of the flames than burning away into a cinder.

 

[TWskyliner]

Since you so proud of McAskill/Bond, tell us TWskyliner, should the US EAST pilots recognize, honor, and implement Nicalau's final and binding decision or not?

What I'm proud of is that we did the right thing, we have less than a thousand people left and as little as our numbers were/are we actually stood up against the mighty AA flight attendant union and made a differance..maybe not for ourselves but for other folks...and hopefully the UA/US f/a's will benefit from our story.
I don't wish bad on anyone but I do believe in Karma...and now I'll leave these fine USAirways folks to their origional topic.

 

[TWskyliner]

Don't try to dodge the question. Answer yes or no. Do you believe that the US East pilots should honor the result of a final and binding arbitration which is something that is mandatory in McAskill/Bond for which you and your fellow TWAers proudly take credit for? Or do you believe that such a decision only counts when DOH is awarded to the very senior workforce of a failed company.

I don't have a dog in their fight and to be honest I have'nt paid attention to what is going on with the US pilots as rabidly as you have...I've been busy working three jobs.

 

[aafsc]

You really don't need to know all the details of the US pilot situation to answer my question- which you obviously are not going to do, which to me is in fact an answer. You come on here and take credit for McAskill/Bond and about how it will help the UA/US F/As in the event of a merger between those to groups even though they are both AFA which has DOH and which is why the UA flight attendants, as well as the other UA employees, are extremely opposed to a UA/US deal, they favor a CO/UA deal, I wonder why???Hmmm. You also get on here with quotes from MLK Jr. I am absolutely certain that when he spoke those words he was not thinking of airline employee seniority integration.