Ual Alpa Reaches Tentative Agrrement

[spacewaitress]

My, my, my....

Looks like some decaf coffee is in order.

I must agree with ualdriver when he says that tempers are flaring because people are facing the reality of their fair share of cuts, unlike the last round when ALPA took a disproportionate hit.

[post="229078"][/post]​

I know for myself I don't have any sympathy for you. After all, you guys took a pay cut on a bigger pay raise that nobody else got and still ended up with a pay raise, as I understand it.

So, it seems more than fair that your share SHOULD be greater, at least in the first round. I think most of us agree that it had something to do with getting into the position we were in at the time anyway.

In other words, it was a wash the first time around.

 

[ua767fo]

What part of my NO vote doesn't ANYONE understand. Will not consider anymore givebacks to inept management.

DENVER,CO

 

[firstamendment]

Get over the paycheck envy and move forward for God's sake!
I agree -- you should have followed a different path if you wanted higher wages. Although you would think that the crap we are dealing with would make this airline a complete cluster****, the employees sure pull off an act for our customers. You would never be able to tell the infighting we have going on by how we are performing.

[post="229035"][/post]​

The problem with you and 767jetz response is that Americans have been brainwashed in believing this is appropriate. In Japan, it's show me the profits or you're gone....Buh Bye...out of here.

At least your ceo is leading by example by actually TAKING a cut.

 

[ualdriver]

"You are some of the most contemptuous pampas asses that I have communicated with to date. I am ashamed to be associated with you in 'company name' and in your inclusion into a 'unionized' organization (as such as it is) should not be acceptable as well.
So, let’s not be presumptuous in the future. Do not consider me ‘friendly fire’ as I have tried to be. I have heard quite enough ‘solidarity’ from the pilot community, and what I have seen/heard/read/felt gives me nausea as to the intentions of ALPA.
You believe that the rest of us ‘peasants’ do not see the tethers that ALPA has on the operations of UAL and we are a group of incompetents. "

What in the world are you talking about? If anyone, you are the one that is part of the problem with UAL. You have a deep contempt from pilots, and only recently have I seen your posts moderate at all. I have never called you or anyone else names like "pompous ass" as you have. And you know what? Despite the crap that you and your fellow mechanics (and others) post on this board sometimes, I realize that not all mechanics (or flight attendants or rampers or whatever) are like that and I'll enjoy coming to work and working with my co-workers while it lasts.

Oh yeah, when I was a freight dog in my early years in aviation, I was a "baggage smasher" type person too.

Spacewaitress-

Remember the ESOP? Everyone but your group took large pay cuts in order to participate, hence the larger raises ALPA and the other groups took when contracts were negotiated in the 2000's to make up for the pay cuts and years without inflationary wage increases. Yeah, and that pay raise we all got in 2000 is the reason why we're here today. The BILLIONS we lost so far are due to payroll increases in 2000. Get a clue.

 

[gatemech]

Spacewaitress-

Remember the ESOP? Everyone but your group took large pay cuts in order to participate, hence the larger raises ALPA and the other groups took when contracts were negotiated in the 2000's to make up for the pay cuts and years without inflationary wage increases. Yeah, and that pay raise we all got in 2000 is the reason why we're here today. The BILLIONS we lost so far are due to payroll increases in 2000. Get a clue.

[post="229111"][/post]​

ualdriver,

How much did you lose on the ESOP? I know I lost a lot. How much did the F/A's lose?

The F/A's were smart to stay out of the ESOP. I never wanted it. It was a joke.

As far as how much any group should take in cuts comes from way up. That is what some group (creditors/dip) decided. If a union wants to go with it then let them. I for one have decided that only a no vote will do. Enough is enough. Once my pay goes down to within 2-3 bucks an hour of what I can make elsewhere then I'm gone. Just a job not a career.

I read that they are looking at fall to exit BK. I would put money on it (not that I would have any anymore) that they come back for another round of concessions.

767jetz,

I'm glad to see management taking a cut. From my point of view it's not the cut but how many management employees we have. There are way too many supervisors. Cut 2 and that more than covers the cuts of the others in that organization. I know that a cut of 5 in my org. would cover all the mechanics wage cuts in that org. Things would still run smooth. I know I know we all have to give. Just giving an example. We all know that UA is very top heavy in management. As we shrink why do we need a VP of west? A VP of east? A senior VP to supervise the other VP's? Pay the right person what it is worth and give that person all regions. I am surprised we don't have someone with the title Vice CEO. I'm sure you get my point.

Happy Holidays to all.

gatemech

 

[ualdriver]

"How much did you lose on the ESOP? I know I lost a lot. How much did the F/A's lose?
The F/A's were smart to stay out of the ESOP. I never wanted it. It was a joke.
As far as how much any group should take in cuts comes from way up. That is what some group (creditors/dip) decided. If a union wants to go with it then let them. I for one have decided that only a no vote will do. Enough is enough. Once my pay goes down to within 2-3 bucks an hour of what I can make elsewhere then I'm gone. Just a job not a career.
I read that they are looking at fall to exit BK. I would put money on it (not that I would have any anymore) that they come back for another round of concessions."

Gatemech-

Happy holidays to you too. I agree with you about the ESOP (in hindsight) and I did lose a ton of money as everyone else did, too. The only reason I brought the ESOP up was because I believe spacewaitress didn't understand why many of the groups that were in the ESOP received large pay increases at the completion of the ESOP period. Although this was debated over and over many years ago on this very forum, he/she obviously wasn't around to read those posts or understand them perhaps.

As far as your "no" vote goes, vote away. Why you're here if you're that close to earning similar money elsewhere is beyond me! I'd be out of here in a heartbeat if I could do that!

 

[Bigsky]

What part of my NO vote doesn't ANYONE understand. Will not consider anymore givebacks to inept management.

Good post. Problems at UAL are not labor. Let's end the race to the bottom.

good luck to all at UAL

bigsky

 

[Busdrvr]

Good post. Problems at UAL are not labor. Let's end the race to the bottom.

good luck to all at UAL

bigsky

[post="229156"][/post]​

You mean like industry-wide minimum pay standards and work rules for all carriers? how about an end of MX being done by anyone who isn't an A&P, and an end to MX outsourcing at ALL U.S. airlines? Sign me up. I kind of prefer my family have the additional safety of the jet being maintained by knowledgable, licensed, professionals and flown by competant, trained, well rested, and professional aviators

 

[767jetz]

I know for myself I don't have any sympathy for you. After all, you guys took a pay cut on a bigger pay raise that nobody else got and still ended up with a pay raise, as I understand it.

So, it seems more than fair that your share SHOULD be greater, at least in the first round. I think most of us agree that it had something to do with getting into the position we were in at the time anyway.

In other words, it was a wash the first time around.

[post="229082"][/post]​

Your comments are so misinformed, I don't even know where to start.

See ualdriver's comments about the cuts we took to participate in ESOP, which resulted in years of never-seen-before expansion, that probably lead to you being hired in the first place (or if not, then at least shooting up the seniority list).

People like you are the first to cry that other's should bear the pain when it's time to give something up. But then you're the first to scream if you don't get the same raises as those who sacrificed. HOW UNBELIEVABLY ONE SIDED!

Let me ask you this... Someday in the future, assuming UA survives and prospers again, will you come out and support ALPA and ask the company to give us a BIGGER raise than you if we sacrifice more than you now??????

I didn't think so. :down:

 

[737nCH11]

Why you folks debate with the unwashed masses is beyond me.

 

[Borescope]

Remember the ESOP? Everyone but your group took large pay cuts in order to participate,

[post="229111"][/post]​

This is classic pilots............Buy HIGH and sell LOW. Maybe you should start another career as a financial advisor. Plenty of your brothers are looking for a way to supplement the loss of their pension

 

[Borescope]

Why you folks debate with the unwashed masses is beyond me.

[post="229184"][/post]​

This must include you also "737". How do we know anyone is truly an employee of UA on this forum? Just because they post here with "UAL" attached to a handle, and they seem to have a grasp of UA's business, doesn't mean they are employed there. Enjoy the fun, because that is what it is. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

 

[Bigsky]

You mean like industry-wide minimum pay standards and work rules for all carriers? how about an end of MX being done by anyone who isn't an A&P, and an end to MX outsourcing at ALL U.S. airlines? Sign me up. I kind of prefer my family have the additional safety of the jet being maintained by knowledgable, licensed, professionals and flown by competant, trained, well rested, and professional aviators

Exactly Busdrvr!!!

 

[spacewaitress]

Your comments are so misinformed, I don't even know where to start.

See ualdriver's comments about the cuts we took to participate in ESOP, which resulted in years of never-seen-before expansion, that probably lead to you being hired in the first place (or if not, then at least shooting up the seniority list).

People like you are the first to cry that other's should bear the pain when it's time to give something up. But then you're the first to scream if you don't get the same raises as those who sacrificed. HOW UNBELIEVABLY ONE SIDED!

Let me ask you this... Someday in the future, assuming UA survives and prospers again, will you come out and support ALPA and ask the company to give us a BIGGER raise than you if we sacrifice more than you now??????

I didn't think so. :down:

[post="229174"][/post]​

Uh well, in the first place the ESOP was an investment your group made and got stock for it. It's not my or anyone else's fault you made a crappy investment. But the fact is that you got something in return. It was an INVESTMENT and you paid for it, poor choice that it turned out to be. And no, I didn't shoot up in seniority as a result of anything that you did. I did move a little with the 'mass' retirement as a result of the last agreement, that was a choice of senior flight attendants and has nothing to do with you.

And I'm not crying about anything. And no I won't support you getting any better raises than the rest of us do proportionally. You are not sacrificing any more than the rest of us, and you didn't sacrifice a dime in ESOP...IT WAS AN INVESTMENT!! It's your problem that it was a poor one.

 

[UAL_TECH]

My, my, my....

Looks like some decaf coffee is in order.

I must agree with ualdriver when he says that tempers are flaring because people are facing the reality of their fair share of cuts, unlike the last round when ALPA took a disproportionate hit.

And the reality is that pilots will be hit harder again just in the pensions.

The whole idea that I should take a an even bigger cut so you don't have to, is what makes me sick. Fair is fair, no matter where you fall on the pyramid.

As for the paycheck envy, people need to get over it. I don't begrudge Tilton for making $600,000, because I don't see that as an excessive salary considering the position. If I wanted to be the CEO of a large company, I could have pursued that avenue.

And by the way UAL TECH, I used to be a "bag smasher" for UAL many years ago, so I think I have a unique perspective on the situation. I worked Ramp service, but I also knew I wanted to improve my income and quality of life. So worked my a$$ off and now I fly the jets instead of servicing and loading them. That was my choice. No one handed it to me.

I also remember other Ramp Service guys in the ready room laughing when I told them I want to be in the cockpit. As if to say "You're just a lowly rampie. You can't fly jets!" That was their own mindset. So please don't preach to me about contempt!
:down:

[post="229078"][/post]​

I respect the fact that you have devoted much time and effort to become what you are today. However, this does not give you license to misrepresent and speak down to your heritage. It should not matter if you were a 'bag smasher' or a 'bug catcher' one might be appreciative of others situations.

For you and 'the other driver' to insist that I have not historically been supportive of ALPA is a lie!!! And a historical research of my posts here and on the yahoo board will answer your inference to my ‘support’.

Also, you and the 'other' APLA membership might remember on how much time and effort in posting support that I (and others) have given after 911 to save our 'Company' and I am reminded by ALPA postings as to their insistence on not being part of a recovery process as 'One cannot eat stock'!!!

Which is totally hypocritical in these events as we would certainly not be here today if the ALPA/UAL Management community (with the help of the IAM) had not shoved the ‘ESOP’ concept up our neither reaches!!!

Your entities are no less part of the numerous bobble headed ‘talking heads’ that are speaking the same ‘smack’ as the UAL management team. It is strange that I am considering to put the ALPA community on my ‘ignore list’ and still keep Fish off.

Why is that?

You ALPA folks are $101 million short of saving this 'cash cow' because I'm not giving another stinking dime to this 'sad tragedy'!!!

JMHO&PO,
B) UT