UAL could outsource a max of 2600 plus jobs

[swamt]

This is happening because of the shake up in the point. FLL; PBI;,and MIA are part of the MIA point. Since MIA and RSW are in the point and only FLL is a protected city, this will cause an internal point bump. People will first take the system or bump into FLL. Junior people will have to take the system to somewhere they can hold or take the furlough..So this is just the total number people affected in this bump. More news to come soon,,since UA is getting into the handling business and creating a "D" scale workforce. Sounds like this will encroach our scope. There are still moves to be made from the 28 to be completed and people will have to take the system. Let's see what happens, but it is a bloodbath to come..........

Sorry to hear this. When will the unions step in and try to negate this?

 

[WorldTraveler]

the IAM negotiated the agreement that allowed this.

There is likely no stepping in until UA's airport operations have been cut to the bone and UA decides to stop.

The IAM had their chance to protect their workers but blew it.

 

[Kev3188]

 

This is happening because of the shake up in the point. FLL; PBI;,and MIA are part of the MIA point. Since MIA and RSW are in the point and only FLL is a protected city, this will cause an internal point bump.

I'm surprised that RSW is in the same point. MIA/FLL/PBI (sorta) makes sense, but RSW is on the other coast; you'd think if anywhere, that TPA would be a better fit?

 

[700UW]

FLL shouldnt be on the list, the article is wrong I believe in that regard.

 

[T5towbar]

 

I'm surprised that RSW is in the same point. MIA/FLL/PBI (sorta) makes sense, but RSW is on the other coast; you'd think if anywhere, that TPA would be a better fit?

RSW isn't in the point, but they are being outsourced as well, adding to the mix. They are not available for a point bump, only the system. I wrote this in haste on my iPhone and could not correct.
 
FLL knew this was going to happen when the announcements for the 28 was made. People were informed about a possible point bump. Same thing goes for the LAX point. If a station closes within a point and because a station in the point is protected (ie: FLL), then members have the option to bump into the protected station. MCO is not in the point and is being insourced from the bid file list (if I am hearing this correctly) and not available for a system option (at FT anyway).  MCO and FLL will be the only stations in Florida that is protected. If I am hearing correctly, most of the insourcing is done, and the remaining members will now have to take the system. Don't know what cities will be available, but the obvious ones are SFO; IAD; and possibly IAH. Might be some sprinkling here and there.  I only am just speaking Ramp only, not Passenger Service.
 
The article is not correct. But it states the total number of people in whole that will be possibly affected when this is all done.

 

[Kev3188]

 

RSW isn't in the point, but they are being outsourced as well, adding to the mix. They are not available for a point bump, only the system. I wrote this in haste on my iPhone and could not correct.

Ok, cool. Thanks for the follow up.

 

[WorldTraveler]

T5,
can you give us a list of stations that HAVE NOT been outsourced or proposed to be outsourced?

 

[T5towbar]

EDIT:  I forgot about TPA. So there is three protected stations in Florida.
 
Here are the protected stations:
 
Hubs: ORD; IAH; SFO; DEN; EWR; IAD; LAX       Protected Express in ORD; IAH; EWR  - Under scope til '18 if not extended in next contract
 
Tier 1a or 2 Stations:  CLE; BOS; AUS; BWI; DCA; DFW; FLL; GUM; HNL; LAS; LGA; JFK; MCO; MSP; MSY; PHL; PHX; PIT; SAN; SEA; TPA
 
Stations that took the modifications: IND; SAT; STL; TUL; RNO; BIL; KOA (there may be another island station or something I missed. This is off  the top of my head)
 
These are for ramp only. Passenger service has stations they modified also.
 
 
Hopefully we can and WILL go into contract negotiations with a stronger hand, since there are no competing interests like retro and other stuff to distract. We have been hit so hard, the only thing left to do is to save, preserve, and protect what we have. The goals should be straightforward and in my humble opinion this is what we have to do:
 
1. Get those stations that did the modifications under scope. Making sure they can't come after them again. Trying to get their pay restored may be a goal, but the former is more important than the latter.
 
2. Protect the rest of the stations. PERIOD.
 
3. Protect the Express work in the three hubs. You are starting a new ground company. WE have to make sure it doesn't infringe on our scope.
 
4. Restore the FT / PT ratios. No unlimited PT.  Our people are getting killed. The staffing models in the hubs isn't working because we lack the proper manpower due to the cuts in FT. Not enough people to cover the gaps and changes because of the rotating staffing. (ie; trying to reinvent the wheel) You don't have an consistent crew since everybody is being moved around. You don't know the strengths and weaknesses of your crewmates, since you don't know who you will be working with next.
 
Preserving all scope. PERIOD.  This is more important than money and/or pay raises.
 
With better leadership at the table, these can be accomplished. Company will slow walk this. Just like they are doing with the MX and FA's. They are still without contracts.

 

[eolesen]

Believe United briefly operated a small connecting operation in MCO, and United definitely had a fairly substantial longhaul operation, and accompanying domestic feed network, at MIA inherited from Pan Am that was dismantled around 2004.

Depends on your definition of long-haul, but the timing of the drawdown was a year earlier.

Back in Winter 1991, UA only had 10 flights at MIA. 1x to DEN/MIA, 3x to IAD, and 5x to ORD.

In Winter 1995, UA had picked up some of the LatAm routes, but a lot of that was close-in flying (e.g. PTY, CCS). True long haul was limited to FRA CNF SCL LIM GIG EZE GRU.

All of the short haul international except for CCS was pretty much gone by 2000, but GRU EZE SCL LIM GIG still existed into 2002.

By summer 2003, all that was left were EZE and GRU.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and T5, thanks for the list.
I do REALLY hope that you can get protection on the cities that are not protected but the chances of regaining jobs that have been lost is slim to none.

Hopefully what happened here is a stark reminder of how little room mgmt. at any airline needs in order to reduce jobs.



when is the earliest chance that the contract can be reopened?

 

[commavia]

Depends on your definition of long-haul, but the timing of the drawdown was a year earlier.

Back in Winter 1991, UA only had 10 flights at MIA. 1x to DEN/MIA, 3x to IAD, and 5x to ORD.

In Winter 1995, UA had picked up some of the LatAm routes, but a lot of that was close-in flying (e.g. PTY, CCS). True long haul was limited to FRA CNF SCL LIM GIG EZE GRU.

All of the short haul international except for CCS was pretty much gone by 2000, but GRU EZE SCL LIM GIG still existed into 2002.

By summer 2003, all that was left were EZE and GRU.

 
Personally, I call CNF, SCL, GIG, EZE and GRU, and possibly LIM, are "longhaul."  And yes, most were wound down before 2004 but the 2004 timeframe I was referring to was when GRU/EZE ended and MIA-South America was fully dismantled.

 

[T5towbar]

and T5, thanks for the list.
I do REALLY hope that you can get protection on the cities that are not protected but the chances of regaining jobs that have been lost is slim to none.

Hopefully what happened here is a stark reminder of how little room mgmt. at any airline needs in order to reduce jobs.



when is the earliest chance that the contract can be reopened?

Don't know exactly, but talks will start sometime in early '16. The company does not have a good labor track record (other than for the pilots), so it will be a long while. We just have to prepare and make our case when the time come. Delaney will take his seat on the BOD, and there will be new negotiators. Their members have felt a lot of pain, and feel there should be no more. I feel that the company will throw money at the situation like last time, but the situation is very much different, and people won't bite. SCOPE is the order of the day, and the thing that ALL members want. If you want to throw some money around, offer better buyouts and many will leave this place.
 
But you still have two major groups with outstanding contracts to settle before anything is to really happen. 
IMHO, those should have been settled already.

 

[700UW]

I talked to some people that were on the UA NC, and they were stuck between a rock and a hard place and I dont agree with them ever bringing that TA out for a vote.
 
We as union members need to educate the members its not just about money, I can pay you $50 an hour to work the ramp, but what good is it when there are no jobs there?
 
I hope the UA NC takes some notes from the last PMUS IAM/CBA for Fleet.

 

[T5towbar]

I talked to some people that were on the UA NC, and they were stuck between a rock and a hard place and I dont agree with them ever bringing that TA out for a vote.
 
We as union members need to educate the members its not just about money, I can pay you $50 an hour to work the ramp, but what good is it when there are no jobs there?
 
I hope the UA NC takes some notes from the last PMUS IAM/CBA for Fleet.

I'm pretty sure that they did. Whoever will be on the next NC, since Delaney will take his seat on the BOD. 
The survivors of this will make sure of it. We don't have any competing interests  (ie: retro) or distractions (ie: 3 separate groups to work with) this time. The mission is to protect and preserve what we have.  It is a simple mission, and we'll probably have to forego payraises to keep that. IMHO, I can live with that. We'd like to restore the wages of the people that took the cuts, but getting their stations under scope is more important, so they can't come after them again.  SCOPE is what we need more than ever. If the company wants to spend some money, a substantial buyout package is needed so those who can leave, get out with something. 
 
DEFEND - PROTECT - PRESERVE .......... PERIOD.

 

[xUT]

I still can't believe that Delaney is still on the UA BOD.
What a waste, never did chit for the membership.
 
WOW!
B) xUT