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Uh Oh.....

You should look into some of John Murtha's comments regarding some Marines being accused of war crimes....
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You said marines, I see one marine mentioned by name. According to the article, the evidence seems to support the alegation that the marines in question acted improperly. Improperly is a polite term give that 14 people were killed.

Not sure how Wuterich can sue unless there are other statements by Murtha not printed. The quote in the article does not even name anyone and states an opinion that at this time seems to be supported by the facts.

I don't much care for Murtha (I think he is a blow hard) but I think you will have to do much better than that.
 
Like I said in another thread...you sure can find stuff when you want to......try Pendelton 8 or john murtha on marines....

Wanna spoon little kitty?
 
I did a search on the Pendelton 8 and on Murtha.

I found no remarks from Murtha that were disparaging to the marines. I also found very little on the disposition of the marines involved. I saw that one plead out in return for testimony against the others. I also found indications that the others were plead out as well. Most of what I read about the 8 indicate that they broke the law and got what they had coming to them. So would argue that they seemed to have got off pretty lightly.

Actually, what I would really like is for you to actually address the issue at hand instead of trying to divert attention. What I would like is for you to stop trying to create an issue that does not seem to exist. When I make an accusation, I try and provide a link. I'm not going to do your home work for you. I provide links and sources that substantiate my argument. If you have an argument, try providing your own references.
 

I found no remarks from Murtha that were disparaging to the marines.


Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, told reporters Wednesday that he got his information from U.S. commanders, who said the investigation will show that the Marines deliberately killed the civilians.

The U.S. Marine Corps has declined to comment on the report, which initially stated that 15 were killed. "There was no firefight. There was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," Murtha said.

Saturday, May 27, 2006 12:42 p.m. EDT

Rush to Judgment Against Haditha Marines

The press is already salivating over the prospect of the next Abu Ghraib-like public relations disaster for the U.S. in the war on terror - ballyhooing as yet unproven allegations that a group of U.S. Marines launched an "unprovoked" attack that killed 24 Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha on November 19, 2005.

But was the Marine response really "unprovoked" - as at least 40 press reports have claimed in recent days?

The Boston Globe reports that the confrontation was touched off when a roadside bomb struck a supply convoy of Kilo Company, Third Battalion, First Marine Regiment. The explosion killed Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, who was on his second tour in Iraq.

"Everybody agrees that this was the triggering event," Paul Hackett, an attorney for a Marine officer with a slight connection to the case, told the paper.

If the roadside bomb was the "triggering event" for the developments that followed, however, then how can it be said that there was "no provocation"?

And while that provocation may not have been enough to justify the wanton murder of innocent Iraqis, it's far from clear at this point that all of those killed were indeed innocent. Or that any innocents who did die were killed in cold blood.

In an April report that pre-dates the uproar over the Haditha allegations, a Marine press release describes the Iraqi town as "a hotbed of insurgent activity less than a year ago." That would be about the time of the so-called Marine massacre.

Plainly, not all the residents of this terrorist hotbed were as innocent as Marine media critics are now claiming.

The Los Angeles Times reports that after smoke from IED cleared, the Marines quickly determined that it was "a type that would have required someone to detonate it."

Following standard procedure, the troops searched nearby houses, the closest of which was 50 yards away.

That's close enough for its occupants to have tracked the Marine convoy and timed the explosion.

It's also worth remembering that the press has so far reported only one side of the story.

All the witness accounts seem to come from residents of Haditha [that hotbed of insurgent activity] - who paint the Marines as modern day incarnations of Nazi storm troopers.

Alleged witness Aws Fahmi, for instance, told the Boston Globe: "I heard Younis speaking to the Americans, saying: `I am a friend. I am good,' But they killed him, and his wife and daughters."

According to the Los Angeles Times, the video that first raised questions about the how the Iraqis died was shot by Haditha residents themselves. Could it have been staged? We still don't know.

Then there's this intriguing tidbit, again from the Times, which notes that after the IED was detonated: "Marines and Iraqi forces searched houses and other structures in the narrow, dusty streets [of Haditha] - jets dropped 500-pound bombs."

Whoever ordered those airstrikes must not have believed the houses of Haditha were filled with Iraqi innocents who knew nothing about planting roadside bombs.

Despite the swirling questions, the press seems eager to jump to conclusions, taking its cue from Rep. John Murtha - who went public last week with charges that the Marines killed innocent Iraqis "in cold blood."

ABC News, for instance, reported Saturday morning that military investigators had already determined that the killings were unjustified, and that several Marines would likely face murder charges. But instead of quoting anyone in uniform, the report offered a soundbyte from a Human Rights Watch spokesman.


It's also worth noting that House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, who got the same insider briefing given to Murtha, says the "in cold blood" allegations are all wet.

"I totally reject that," Hunter told the L.A. Times.[/]

The California Republican has pledged to conclude his own investigation in June. In the meantime he worries about the press using Haditha to further their campaign against the military.

"I don't want the actions of one squad in one city on one morning to be used to symbolize or characterize or tar the actions of our great troops," Hunter told a Washington news conference last week.


I also found very little on the disposition of the marines involved.

Updated: 4:48 p.m. ET Aug 9, 2007

LOS ANGELES - All charges have been dismissed against two Marines accused in the killings of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha, the Marine Corps announced Thursday.

When I make an accusation, I try and provide a link.
:lol:
 
How is the first quote disparaging or false? According to the LA Times article below, it would appear that they were guilty of the charges they were accused of and that Murth was correct when he said the pressure that these soldiers were under may have had a factor in their actions.

What is the source of the second quote?

While you seem to prefer op-ed pieces as your source , I prefer something that has facts that can be verified.

Dissposition of the defendants

All eight members of an infantry squad were accused of murder in the execution of an unarmed Iraqi man in Hamandiya in April 2006. One by one, the five junior members of the squad accepted plea bargains to reduced charges, but Sgt. Lawrence G. Hutchins III, Cpl. Trent D. Thomas and Cpl. Marshall Magincalda opted for courts-martial.


Thomas, 25, and Magincalda, 24, were convicted of conspiracy to commit murder but then freed without additional jail time beyond the 14 months they had been held in the brig awaiting trial.

Hutchins, the squad leader and the ringleader of the plot, was sentenced Friday by his jury to 15 years — half of what the prosecution requested.


It would appear that what they were accused of doing did happen. The 3 who opted not to plea out, were convicted by a jury of their peers. Not sure where you found that charges were dropped but then again, links are not one of your strong points.


You really do make this too easy. I like to see what you come up with, it is entertaining for me.
 
Pfc. John Jodka III, Cpl. Trent D. Thomas, Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins III, Cpl. Marshall Magincalda, Hospitalman 3rd Class Melson Bacos, Lance Cpl. Tyler A. Jackson, Lance Cpl. Robert Pennington and Lance Cpl. Jerry E. Shumate Jr. are all men who volunteered to serve their country in Iraq.

Today, and for the last two months, they are in solitary confinement in the brig at Camp Pendleton, shackled during weekend visits with their family members and frequently deprived of their rights as American citizens as they stand charged with pre-meditated murder of an Iraqi last April.

The evidence against them is based largely – if not exclusively – on the word of the family of the dead man, 52-year-old Hashim Ibrahim Awad in Hamdanya.

His family claims the seven Marines and Navy corpsman kidnapped Awad, bound him in handcuffs, shot him repeatedly and then planted an AK-47 and a stolen shovel on his body to make him appear to be a terrorist.

The family waited four days to report the "crime."

The only physical evidence against the servicemen is Awad's body, which has been reburied in Iraq after the government performed an autopsy. The defense attorneys must rely on analysis of the government's own report to rebut the charges.

Since the body was badly decomposed when the autopsy was performed, it was impossible even to determine the precise number of bullet wounds in the body or whether his hands were bound.

This is the case against the Pendleton 8.

Makes one wonder.....

In my mind, this story raises a number of questions:

* Why is it that there is more concern expressed in the media today for terrorist prisoners at Gitmo than for seven Marines and a Navy corpsman shackled and kept in solitary confinement in the brig at Camp Pendleton?

* How is it possible that the men now known as the "Pendleton 8" are charged with pre-meditated murder, kidnapping, conspiracy and other offenses when the only evidence against them seems to be the word of Iraqis in a terrorist neighborhood in Hamdaniya?

* Why are these soldiers, who were permitted to serve in the battlefield after the alleged murder, incarcerated at all – since they are clearly not flight risks?

* After two months, shouldn't we be asking how long this incarceration will be permitted to last?

* If a hearing is not held until September, will these eight men who served their country willingly, and who are presumed to be innocent, be imprisoned until then?

* Why are they being kept in the hottest part of the brig? Is it part of an effort to break their will and get them to point fingers at each other?

* Why are Naval Criminal Investigative Service officers grilling the prisoners about what happened in Iraq without their attorneys present?

* Why were they interrogated and coerced by NCIS agents for long periods of time – often without bathroom breaks or counsel present – both in Iraq and at Camp Pendleton?

* Is the Pentagon trying to make an example of these men?

* Is the harsh treatment of the Pendleton 8 a political decision made in Washington to show how tough President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are?

* Is it a move to placate or offset the antiwar movement in this country?

Insight


In reading some of the documents associated with the Sharratt A-32, I found that this case was not nearly as black-and-white as many in the media and politics had tried to portray it. On a chaotic day, in an extremely hostile area of Iraq, and not too long after the bloody battle for Falluja, 24 Iraqis were killed. Sharratt did not deny that he shot and killed three of the four Ahmed brothers: Jasib Aiad, Kahtan Aiad, and Jamal Aiad. What was being contested was whether Sharratt did so within the rules of engagement, that the killing was not unlawful, but in response to a perceived threat.
 
Are you implying that the military lied and is trying to cover up some crimes and in the process is throwing the 8 defendants under the bus? The same military that I am supposed to trust when they give reports on the success or failure of actions in Iraq? Are you trying to imply that the jury of his peers through them under the bus as well?

What are the sources of the first 2 quotes? The 'insight' thing looks like a op-ed too me.
 
You couldn't see the media feeding frenzy after Abu-Graib?
And the new kids on the block out to stop the war and Murtha flaps his gums in the news without any real proof other than hearsay and suddenly theres 'pressure' on SECDEF for answers and the turd rolls down hill to that crew in Haidatha.

I not saying the military lied or covered anything up but it sure looks like they hung some innocent dudes out to dry due to 'trial by media'.

Your pal Joe Farah.......

Hey...the military wouldn't lie or stretch the truth...just ask the Tillman family.

Whether or not you agree,the media can make a story and make those idiots in congress due a knee jerk without all the facts...
 
My point was clearly that the military lies through it’s teeth. Not sure if you ever served on a jury before (I have sat and rendered verdicts 2 times). One thing that always impressed me and gave me a bit of faith in the judicial system is that al the jurors I sat with took their obligation very seriously. Regardless of what we ‘knew’ happened or not, we rendered a verdict that was supported by the evidence. One the first one we let a DUI walk and we knew sure as we knew our own names that he was guilty but the cops lied on the stand and the video evidence did not support the claim. Point being that regardless of what the military tried to hide, I have to give a lot of credence to the verdict do to my own experience on juries.

Was there a frenzy with Abu Graib? Sure there was and IMO, justifiably so. What we did there was and embarrassment to this country and all that it stands for. The amount of damage it did to our reputation is immeasurable IMO.

As for Murthas comments, they were in conjunction with statements made by the prosecution. And in the end (not that it really matters) he ended up being correct. Besides, the quote I keep seeing attributed to him blamed it on the pressure that was placed on the soldiers. I did not read it as a condemnation of the military.

I would love to see a gag order on all government/military prosecutions. That way statements by Murtha and the folks who hung Clinton out to dry on Whitewater and the guy who killed him self (I forgot his name) would not see the light of day till a verdicts was rendered.

Yes the media can affect politics, but the reverse is also true. Politicians and various government agencies can manipulate the press very easily as well. That’s the price we pay for a free society.
 
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