pitguy
Veteran
I can assure you this. Third party work is done to save money and you will not get the same/ like quality of work.
--Chip, Your outpouring of support is duly noted.
--Chip, Your outpouring of support is duly noted.
Unfolding News & Events?
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Chip, one of the many problems here is while the 279 mainline a/c will be flown by mainline pilots, the maintenance on some of those birds will be vendored.
Perhaps if we parked the Boeings, replaced them with EMB 190's, vendored the flying of the 190's, you'd catch on.
Naaaah!
Perhaps if we parked the Boeings, replaced them with EMB 190's, vendored the flying of the 190's, you'd catch on.
Naaaah!
- Thread Starter
- #33
Diogenes & Pitguy:
I fully understand the issue with part of the 279 fleet scheduled to have heavy maintenance outsourced, but you have missed my point, probably because you are blinded by the emotion of the unfolding events.
This has nothing to do with employee support, it has to do with the facts.
My point is simple, third party contractors do excellent work that I have witnessed first hand when I flew as a Maintenance Test and Research, Development, Test, & Evaluation Pilot at the Naval Air Test Center.
Mobile Aerospace and other contractors do quality work for a number of major airlines, which is my only point. To suggest otherwise is wrong and is an insult to the A&P profression.
The issues of job outsourcing and contractor maintenance are separate. As I have repeatedly said, yes, the company is trying to outsource jobs and I do not like it, but third party mechanics do quality work and in the case of the proposed Mobile Aerospace deal, US Airways A&P Mechanics would conduct the QA, ensuring all heavy maintenance would be performed at required levels.
In addition, you're right that ALPA will have a fight on its hands if the EMB-190/195's arrive to replace the B737s. By the way, as you know, the IAM and/or AMFA will too.
Respectfully,
Chip
P.S. It's a beautiful Cleveland Browns Tuesday afternoon.
I fully understand the issue with part of the 279 fleet scheduled to have heavy maintenance outsourced, but you have missed my point, probably because you are blinded by the emotion of the unfolding events.
This has nothing to do with employee support, it has to do with the facts.
My point is simple, third party contractors do excellent work that I have witnessed first hand when I flew as a Maintenance Test and Research, Development, Test, & Evaluation Pilot at the Naval Air Test Center.
Mobile Aerospace and other contractors do quality work for a number of major airlines, which is my only point. To suggest otherwise is wrong and is an insult to the A&P profression.
The issues of job outsourcing and contractor maintenance are separate. As I have repeatedly said, yes, the company is trying to outsource jobs and I do not like it, but third party mechanics do quality work and in the case of the proposed Mobile Aerospace deal, US Airways A&P Mechanics would conduct the QA, ensuring all heavy maintenance would be performed at required levels.
In addition, you're right that ALPA will have a fight on its hands if the EMB-190/195's arrive to replace the B737s. By the way, as you know, the IAM and/or AMFA will too.
Respectfully,
Chip
P.S. It's a beautiful Cleveland Browns Tuesday afternoon.
FlyingHippie
Senior
- Jan 27, 2003
- 283
- 0
Chip you are embarrasing the pilot group. Please do us all a favor and take a sledgehammer to your computer.
A320 Driver
Veteran
pitguy
Veteran
Chip,
I fully understood your post. I also am very familiar with your military ventures. Other "unnamed sources close to the scene" have told me "anonymously" (lol) that they do not agree with your third party experience in their eyes through the very same military outfit. They have stated there were numerous issues that have to be dealt with from these government vendors. These people were the Crew Chiefs on these very aircraft.
I also truly understand your compassion for the maintenance employees in this trying time for us. I bet you are fun at a funeral.
Best Regards,
pitguy
--Go away lil "Davey" and take the Witch Doctor with you.
I fully understood your post. I also am very familiar with your military ventures. Other "unnamed sources close to the scene" have told me "anonymously" (lol) that they do not agree with your third party experience in their eyes through the very same military outfit. They have stated there were numerous issues that have to be dealt with from these government vendors. These people were the Crew Chiefs on these very aircraft.
I also truly understand your compassion for the maintenance employees in this trying time for us. I bet you are fun at a funeral.
Best Regards,
pitguy
--Go away lil "Davey" and take the Witch Doctor with you.
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
The promise of keeping 279 A/C in the fleet protects no other group than the Pilots.
They can keep 279 and have the heavy Mtc. done by vendors. They can keep pulling out of Mainline Stations and flying the A/C to the Islands where we employ NOBODY. My point here is that even with the promise of keeping the fleet at 279, many jobs will be lost in MTC, Fleet and CS. The same amount of pilots will be utilized no matter who fixes the A/C or where they fly them period.
They can keep 279 and have the heavy Mtc. done by vendors. They can keep pulling out of Mainline Stations and flying the A/C to the Islands where we employ NOBODY. My point here is that even with the promise of keeping the fleet at 279, many jobs will be lost in MTC, Fleet and CS. The same amount of pilots will be utilized no matter who fixes the A/C or where they fly them period.
A320 Driver
Veteran
The point being...Just like Chip , It's all about you !!! Guess again A320...it's going to be all about US or nothing !!!A320 Driver said:
The average laboring employee is not interested in making the rich richer...or only insuring that the remaining pilots make a living wage here. U is comprised of more than just throttle jocks...and the sooner you come to terms with us all being into this together...then maybe we can start solving our core problems...and shed ourselves of the continued cycle of limited thinking leaders , that only think about whats could for a select minority in the upper tier.
Should this present cycle continue...We may hold on to 279 Acft?...but the ranks could easily drop to under 20,000 employees...that 25,000 less than what we had pre- 9-11-01. Frankly...the rank and file has had enough of the slash and burn trends....and if we are going to go?...it's going to happen in a you are going down with us fashion.
Ok, let's stop here and take a breath.
IF - the IAM is allowed to legally self help (strike).
Then - the AFL-CIO has pledged to sanction and support our strike.
That includes all and any AFL-CIO unions on the property.
If the ALPA leadership supports the AFL-CIO call, then Pilots who cross the line will be SCABS within ALPA.
Let's let ALPA and it's leadership deal with these mercenaries, if and when they appear.
Until then any argument is moot. ALPA has already pledged its support!!!
IF - the IAM is allowed to legally self help (strike).
Then - the AFL-CIO has pledged to sanction and support our strike.
That includes all and any AFL-CIO unions on the property.
If the ALPA leadership supports the AFL-CIO call, then Pilots who cross the line will be SCABS within ALPA.
Let's let ALPA and it's leadership deal with these mercenaries, if and when they appear.
Until then any argument is moot. ALPA has already pledged its support!!!
(1) If they use mechanics. All of the work done in house is done by licensed mechanics, and the MRO, they only require a mechanic to sign off on the work.Chip Munn said:
(2) Tell the family members of flight 5481 about "quality work" and FAA oversight.
I have read the contract that was dated Sep 1 2003 that according to managment never existed. When you open up an airplane for an initial inspection you never know what you are going to run into. (Cracks, corrosion, ect) Looking at our current line of 737 Q checks not many of them do not make the ETR due to these unforseen problems. The contract with ST Aerospace specifically stated each A/C would be completed within a time frame otherwise there was a monetary fine. Things are a bit differect with government contracts(waste is rampant) such as Lockeed and what used to be Rockwell. When you get into the private sector every penny is accounted for, and if it takes the A&P in charge to fire up the stamp to make the deadline he will have to do it otherwise he is history. And by the way don't think its going to be 100% A&P licensed mechanics working on your A/C because its a repair station and an A&P is not required. Only requirement is a licenced A&P sign off the paperwork.
On a personal note I am disappointed in a few of you recent posts, it is kind of important that all groups stick together during these time. :down:
On a personal note I am disappointed in a few of you recent posts, it is kind of important that all groups stick together during these time. :down:
CHIP MUNN and A320DRIVER:
An aircraft being later than promised from an MRO results in a monetary penalty for each day it is late......and you think quality work will be performed in this type of situation?? NO WAY IN HELL!!!! If anyone tells you otherwise then they are full of crap!!!!
Everything gets rushed thru....including the unforseen problems that arise during a heavy maintenance visit.....Remember, the ETR clock is always ticking.....Time is money. Things tend to get overlooked in this type of situation...perhaps even a safety critical item?? IT COULD HAPPEN!!!! It HAS happened on many occasions and the result is always the same........FATALITIES.
It must be QUALITY over QUANTITY where aircraft mtc is concerned. And 99% is not acceptable.....it MUST be 100% CORRECT. That is how redundancy works by design. Start messing with this and bad things will eventually occur.
Why both of you are so bent on MRO's is beyond my comprehension...maybe you are shareholders of ST Mobile Aerospace....It wouldn't surprise me though.
E-TRONS OUT.
An aircraft being later than promised from an MRO results in a monetary penalty for each day it is late......and you think quality work will be performed in this type of situation?? NO WAY IN HELL!!!! If anyone tells you otherwise then they are full of crap!!!!
Everything gets rushed thru....including the unforseen problems that arise during a heavy maintenance visit.....Remember, the ETR clock is always ticking.....Time is money. Things tend to get overlooked in this type of situation...perhaps even a safety critical item?? IT COULD HAPPEN!!!! It HAS happened on many occasions and the result is always the same........FATALITIES.
It must be QUALITY over QUANTITY where aircraft mtc is concerned. And 99% is not acceptable.....it MUST be 100% CORRECT. That is how redundancy works by design. Start messing with this and bad things will eventually occur.
Why both of you are so bent on MRO's is beyond my comprehension...maybe you are shareholders of ST Mobile Aerospace....It wouldn't surprise me though.
E-TRONS OUT.
