union power

[Duke787]

I read the comments on this forum, and I wonder how delusional you people are. This isn't 2000-2001 when we had all sorts of power, and we were able to get a good pay raise thanks to AMFA and the TWU. It's cheaper to fly now then it was 10 years ago, A&P mechs and Pilots were in high demand because every airline was expanding. Now every airline is shrinking, there are a lot mechs and pilots on the street. The 5 big airlines have shed 186,000 employees in the past 10 years. I don't know what the F/A's are thinking, all their rhetoric is everything back or nothing, I believe the training program has been brought down to 3 weeks. I don't think AA will be caught flat footed again. As always nobody is forcing you to work at AA.

Read the article and see how much power these guys had.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-11-02-northwest-strike_x.htm

 

[frontline]

I read the comments on this forum, and I wonder how delusional you people are. This isn't 2000-2001 when we had all sorts of power, and we were able to get a good pay raise thanks to AMFA and the TWU. It's cheaper to fly now then it was 10 years ago, A&P mechs and Pilots were in high demand because every airline was expanding. Now every airline is shrinking, there are a lot mechs and pilots on the street. The 5 big airlines have shed 186,000 employees in the past 10 years. I don't know what the F/A's are thinking, all their rhetoric is everything back or nothing, I believe the training program has been brought down to 3 weeks. I don't think AA will be caught flat footed again. As always nobody is forcing you to work at AA.

Read the article and see how much power these guys had.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-11-02-northwest-strike_x.htm

I don't think it's quite that dire, but I do agree that we are weaker than we were back then, before an entire decade that rocked the airline industry in some very damaging ways. Getting everything back from 2003 isn't happening this year, but I think we'll eventually agree with the company on a new contract that restores some of what we gave up.

 

[Duke787]

I don't think it's quite that dire, but I do agree that we are weaker than we were back then, before an entire decade that rocked the airline industry in some very damaging ways. Getting everything back from 2003 isn't happening this year, but I think we'll eventually agree with the company on a new contract that restores some of what we gave up.

I agree, get what we can now and fight for more during the next contract after the economy picks up.

 

[Mach85ER]

Each group has to weigh the threat of their replacement.

How short and ugly can AA get with their FA training, 1 week? 5 days?

How fast can a cabin cleaner get outsourced? Not sure those TWU members could get to Home Depot to buy boards for strike signs before that can happen.

How fast can you train a pilot to fly a AA jet? Not real fast. It runs about 6 weeks, and capacity is about 60/month.

Every group has to weigh the risks involved. It doesn't sound like the NWA guys did their homework.

As for pay, I have no problem with AA Executives using SWA/FDX/UPS Management pay for setting their own payrates. They also shouldn't have a problem with us doing the same.

 

[Duke787]

Each group has to weigh the threat of their replacement.

How short and ugly can AA get with their FA training, 1 week? 5 days?

How fast can a cabin cleaner get outsourced? Not sure those TWU members could get to Home Depot to buy boards for strike signs before that can happen.

How fast can you train a pilot to fly a AA jet? Not real fast. It runs about 6 weeks, and capacity is about 60/month.

Every group has to weigh the risks involved. It doesn't sound like the NWA guys did their homework.

As for pay, I have no problem with AA Executives using SWA/FDX/UPS Management pay for setting their own payrates. They also shouldn't have a problem with us doing the same.

How much is our pension worth when comparing pay against airlines that don't have the defined pension plan? Those same airlines also don't have base maintenance (less overhead, less mechanics and support staff).

 

[Duke787]

snip

AMR Corp's American Airlines will also launch a daily nonstop service between Chicago and Beijing starting on April 27. The Fort Worth, Texas-headquartered airline won the right to fly the route in 2007 and originally planned to start the service last year.

United Airlines and Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Corp (Ameco Beijing) on Monday signed a five-year contract for aircraft airframe heavy maintenance .

United's entire fleet of 52 Boeing 777s and 24 B747s will go to Ameco Beijing for heavy maintenance visits.

The deal, worth $140 million, came after Ameco Beijing completed its previous five-year contract for heavy maintenance of United's B777 fleet.

Ameco Beijing, a joint venture between Air China and Lufthansa German Airlines, achieved 6.2 percent revenue growth last year despite a global downturn in the maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) industry as airlines parked aircraft and deferred non-urgent maintenance. Business from international carriers rose 9 percent last year, said Hu Yuliang, general manager of Ameco Beijing.

Chinese airlines' fleet expansion and US and European carriers' increasing tendency to outsource aircraft maintenance services to lower costs is making China the fastest growing MRO market in Asia.



http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2010-03/31/content_9667184.htm


What makes the mechanics think this can't happen to them. I write like this because it seems that there is not that many different view points on this forum.

 

[Tex-Mech]

How much is our pension worth when comparing pay against airlines that don't have the defined pension plan? Those same airlines also don't have base maintenance (less overhead, less mechanics and support staff).

Wow Gilboy is working double time trying to sell this pile of junk he voted to bring back.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

we would never had unions with this type of thinking. When organizers were pushing to organize in the early part of the century it was the worst of times for the economy. What were the excuses back in 1983,1989,1992,1995,2003 and now 2010? "We will get them next time" and "live to fight another day" has been the battle cry for way too long. We are always setting the bar lower for the industry. Do you want a career or just a job?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I read the comments on this forum, and I wonder how delusional you people are. This isn't 2000-2001 when we had all sorts of power, and we were able to get a good pay raise thanks to AMFA and the TWU. It's cheaper to fly now then it was 10 years ago, A&P mechs and Pilots were in high demand because every airline was expanding. Now every airline is shrinking, there are a lot mechs and pilots on the street. The 5 big airlines have shed 186,000 employees in the past 10 years. I don't know what the F/A's are thinking, all their rhetoric is everything back or nothing, I believe the training program has been brought down to 3 weeks. I don't think AA will be caught flat footed again. As always nobody is forcing you to work at AA.

Read the article and see how much power these guys had.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-11-02-northwest-strike_x.htm

Delusional? No, realistic. If you wish to live your career as a victim then clear your throat and take a BIG swallow. This ta is anti-union yet you seem to think it is okay.

"As always nobody is forcing you to work at AA." I just love this comment from people promoting anti-union/anti-labor contracts all while behind an alias.

Listen, Duke. I am working at AA because this is where I am. If I was working at a different airline/company and I would fight just as hard if the same scenario was taking place there. Why roll over when times are hard?

What Duke seems to forget, as frontline also indicates in his posting, is that we are UNION people and it is our DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to fight for what we deserve. This goes for those who have retired, those still working and those coming in the door after us. I DO NOT buy into the ploy/dream of getting a little now and fighting for the rest later... all the while we give up even more concessions. (Hey Duke/frontline have you even looked at the ASM limit/cap AA wants?)

Vote No! It's so easy even a, well, you get the idea?

 

[Skymess]

I read the comments on this forum, and I wonder how delusional you people are. This isn't 2000-2001 when we had all sorts of power, and we were able to get a good pay raise thanks to AMFA and the TWU. It's cheaper to fly now then it was 10 years ago, A&P mechs and Pilots were in high demand because every airline was expanding. Now every airline is shrinking, there are a lot mechs and pilots on the street. The 5 big airlines have shed 186,000 employees in the past 10 years. I don't know what the F/A's are thinking, all their rhetoric is everything back or nothing, I believe the training program has been brought down to 3 weeks. I don't think AA will be caught flat footed again. As always nobody is forcing you to work at AA.

Read the article and see how much power these guys had.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-11-02-northwest-strike_x.htm

Not delusional at all. The airline industry has always been cyclical. Things will pick up.

Things are actually looking much better lately because of the mergers. We've now eliminated 2 major airlines because they've merged into two other majors. That takes two major players out of the market. Airfares will rise once there aren't as many players in the system. Add to that the fact that more airlines will start to unionize in the coming years thanks to the law change about voting for a union. Other airlines costs will rise and they will raise airfares as well.

As Ken said, nobody is forcing us to work here but this is where we are because this is the career that we chose and the airline we chose to have that career at. Unlike management who flit around from company to company chasing the highest salary, there are people who still look to have a career at ONE company and expect a retirement from that company. We have all invested a lot of sweat equity into this company and we want to get back something for that time and effort. I don't know how corporate management has managed to change the public's perception that trying to have a career is a bad thing but, evidently, they have.

 

[Duke787]

Delusional? No, realistic. If you wish to live your career as a victim then clear your throat and take a BIG swallow. This ta is anti-union yet you seem to think it is okay.

"As always nobody is forcing you to work at AA." I just love this comment from people promoting anti-union/anti-labor contracts all while behind an alias.

Listen, Duke. I am working at AA because this is where I am. If I was working at a different airline/company and I would fight just as hard if the same scenario was taking place there. Why roll over when times are hard?

What Duke seems to forget, as frontline also indicates in his posting, is that we are UNION people and it is our DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to fight for what we deserve. This goes for those who have retired, those still working and those coming in the door after us. I DO NOT buy into the ploy/dream of getting a little now and fighting for the rest later... all the while we give up even more concessions. (Hey Duke/frontline have you even looked at the ASM limit/cap AA wants?)

Vote No! It's so easy even a, well, you get the idea?

As always Ken, you have no intelligent reasonable response, just rhetoric like AMFA had at NWA, and how did that work out. You attack when someone gives a different opinion other then yours. We'll see how our union brothers votes on this TA after we get a chance to read the whole agreement.

 

[Duke787]

Not delusional at all. The airline industry has always been cyclical. Things will pick up.

Things are actually looking much better lately because of the mergers. We've now eliminated 2 major airlines because they've merged into two other majors. That takes two major players out of the market. Airfares will rise once there aren't as many players in the system. Add to that the fact that more airlines will start to unionize in the coming years thanks to the law change about voting for a union. Other airlines costs will rise and they will raise airfares as well.

As Ken said, nobody is forcing us to work here but this is where we are because this is the career that we chose and the airline we chose to have that career at. Unlike management who flit around from company to company chasing the highest salary, there are people who still look to have a career at ONE company and expect a retirement from that company. We have all invested a lot of sweat equity into this company and we want to get back something for that time and effort. I don't know how corporate management has managed to change the public's perception that trying to have a career is a bad thing but, evidently, they have.

Well said, but there are a lot of what if's. I don't think things are going to be rosy for us for a few years. To expect to get everything back from our 2001 contract's is unreasonable right now. How many more years do you want to work without a pay raise. The TWU and APFA have already asked to be released into 30 day cooling off period. So what are you willing to strike for, and when. Based on past airline strikes, we'll be on the outside looking in. I doubt that AA will be pushed around again by the APFA, seeing how AA is already training the F/A replacements.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Well said, but there are a lot of what if's. I don't think things are going to be rosy for us for a few years. To expect to get everything back from our 2001 contract's is unreasonable right now. How many more years do you want to work without a pay raise. The TWU and APFA have already asked to be released into 30 day cooling off period. So what are you willing to strike for, and when. Based on past airline strikes, we'll be on the outside looking in. I doubt that AA will be pushed around again by the APFA, seeing how AA is already training the F/A replacements.

Not an intelligent response? Just rhetoric? Duke, what do you not understand about the reason we are in unions for? Why is it unreasonable to get back what was taken from us? Is it because of fear? Why do you not explain that American Cargo makes money while flying on the bellies of American aircraft that we maintain. Why do you not point out that if management lied to us before they will lie to us again? Why do you ask what the twu and APFA are willing to strike for? You seem to not ask questions you are afraid of hearing the answers to.

Your trolling is comical and transparant. I'm glad you use an alias because if I was you I'd be ashamed of people knowing who I was.

Vote No!

 

[Duke787]

we would never had unions with this type of thinking. When organizers were pushing to organize in the early part of the century it was the worst of times for the economy. What were the excuses back in 1983,1989,1992,1995,2003 and now 2010? "We will get them next time" and "live to fight another day" has been the battle cry for way too long. We are always setting the bar lower for the industry. Do you want a career or just a job?

Chuck I'm not concerned with 1910 unions. I'm concerned with 2010 TWU. When this TA passes we'll be making about $35.50 an hour. To be getting a raise in these times with a pension and able to keep a lot of guys isn't to bad. Have a little faith in the TWU they have gotten you this far, and is able to keep TUL and AFW open. Of course we haven't read the whole TA to forge an intelligent opinion. I say it will pass because I didn't think the MOAC (mother of all concessions) would pass.

 

[Duke787]

Not an intelligent response? Just rhetoric? Duke, what do you not understand about the reason we are in unions for? Why is it unreasonable to get back what was taken from us? Is it because of fear? Why do you not explain that American Cargo makes money while flying on the bellies of American aircraft that we maintain. Why do you not point out that if management lied to us before they will lie to us again? Why do you ask what the twu and APFA are willing to strike for? You seem to not ask questions you are afraid of hearing the answers to.

Your trolling is comical and transparant. I'm glad you use an alias because if I was you I'd be ashamed of people knowing who I was.

Vote No!

Nothing was taken from us Chuck, OUR union voted the 2003 concession in. We are employed by AA to fix aircraft. Plane comes in we fix it. That is our job at AA. I believe you work at SAN, so by your reasoning you should not see any profits from the wide body's that fly out MIA, or when the company loses a lot of money for a quarter we don't get paid. If your going to accuse the executives of lying to employees, share holders, banks. you should back that up with facts instead of what you think or old rhetoric.

It seems you still can't form an intelligent response other then the same old talking points.You seem like a guy that complains all the time. You are not worthy of my time.