United, Pilots To Get Day In Court

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United, pilots to get day in court
Unions, creditors oppose proposal

By Mark Skertic
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 5, 2005


United Airlines and its pilots will be flying through unfriendly skies this week.

Other labor groups, United's creditors and the federal agency that could be forced to assume the airline's pension liabilities are expected to be in court Thursday to argue against the deal United has reached with the Air Line Pilots Association.

The flight attendants union has voted to strike if the court throws out its contract. That union and others have said it is unfair for United to walk away from commitments the carrier made to its workers.

One expert said United is attempting to push bankruptcy law in a new direction by asking a judge to throw out labor contracts, while at the same time arguing those workers should be prevented from striking.

It would be a new interpretation of the law and a violation of their constitutional rights to force them to work for a lower wage, said Douglas Baird, a professor at the University of Chicago's law school who has closely followed United's bankruptcy case.

"United is making a rather preposterous argument," Baird said. "You put the two together and you end up with a situation where the workers have to come to work under the contract as modified and they don't have the right to strike. Which is ridiculous."

"Obviously, United and the pilots have made an unholy alliance," Baird said. "The effect of the deal they've reached with each other is to make the pilots better off without making United worse off." :down: No kiddin <_<


Here's the entire article
 
"Obviously, United and the pilots have made an unholy alliance," Baird said. "The effect of the deal they've reached with each other is to make the pilots better off without making United worse off."

Pray tell, how exactly does having the defined benefit plan terminated make the pilots better off? A pilot who is 55 years old was going to be looking at a pension annuity in the neighborhood of $80,000 to $100,000. Under the PBGC, he will get less than $30,000. This is on top of another 14.7% pay-cut. Better off??? Good thing this guy is hiding at a university and not working in the real world.
 
LaBradford22 said:
Good thing this guy is hiding at a university and not working in the real world.
[post="235849"][/post]​

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach! :up:
 
I'll go along with making myself better off and not making UAL worse off. What's the problem???
 
Oh, yeah. I forgot that the problem was pilot envy and other unions that can't think outside the box. Silly me. :p
 
Seems to me that those pilots retiring at 55 better work till 60. Retiring at 55 is not an entitlement anymore.
 
uafa21 said:
Seems to me that those pilots retiring at 55 better work till 60. Retiring at 55 is not an entitlement anymore.
[post="235889"][/post]​

For clarification, my original post was referring to a pilot who is 55 today who would retire at 60. His projected pension has been decimated by a factor of 60% or more. Yet somehow, this makes pilots "better off". So sez a U of Chi law prof.
 
737nCH11 said:
I'll go along with making myself better off and not making UAL worse off. What's the problem???
[post="235878"][/post]​

Exactly. Isn't that called win/win negotiations? Not that this new deal is a "win" for UA pilots by any stretch of the imagination.
 
767jetz said:
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach! :up:
[post="235861"][/post]​
That is a wholly prejudiced statement.

My father taught civil engineering at Texas A&M for his entire teaching career. He designed the stage elevator at the Lincoln Center and held numerous other consulting positions throughout his career... and he turned down some very lucrative offers from several companies, including Shell, before he decided to teach. He was more than able to make it and NOT teach.

He, along with my mother, made the decision that he would teach. He did not do it out of the need for prestige (which he shunned;he didn't buy into it) or for the high pay (at that time, a teaching salary was peanuts). He did it because he LOVED to teach. He loved the students and the diversity among them. He loved to give them what he had of himself and of his knowledge and experience.

The implication of your post seems to be that teachers are losers and the winners in this life are everyone else who don't teach...who 'do', whatever that is. Thank God I had an example in my father that there are more things of importance in this life than money. There are people in this world who follow their hearts and make decisions based on what they have to CONTRIBUTE...not for what they can take from this world.

I know that may surprise you hearing it from me. I am not my father and I only wish I could be half the person he is and has been his whole life. He is a noble and generous and giving man, who dedicated his life to teaching because he loved his students.

I apologize for any remarks that I have made in the past that have been blatant or construed as such, put downs of pilots. I know I've been on the deep end and pretty darn angry at times. I've been trying to step back and just let it go. But your remark just set me off. There really are those who are just d@mn good people. My dad's one of them, and to this day, at 89 years of age, he still keeps in touch with many of his students. Why...because they appreciate what he gave them.

Okay...end of tirade. Sorry, but I gotta defend my dad, and those other loser teachers!
 
Coming from you I couldn't care less, considering your extreme arrogance, bloated sense of self importance and contempt of flight attendants.

OOPS, I left out the unwashed masses. :p
 
Hey Space, that is beautiful. I you were my kid, I can't imagine a more beautiful gift than to have him or her write that down and frame it for me. Wow! Think about it....with the United paycut, you can actually afford this present too! A win/win :up: You Dad should be so proud.......he lived by his convictions and raised a great kid too. Nice combo
 
spacewaitress said:
I apologize for any remarks that I have made in the past that have been blatant or construed as such, put downs of pilots. I know I've been on the deep end and pretty darn angry at times. I've been trying to step back and just let it go. But your remark just set me off. There really are those who are just d@mn good people. My dad's one of them, and to this day, at 89 years of age, he still keeps in touch with many of his students. Why...because they appreciate what he gave them.

Okay...end of tirade. Sorry, but I gotta defend my dad, and those other loser teachers!
[post="236004"][/post]​


Slow down there space. What happened to stepping back and letting go???

It's just a funny expression I once heard. I used to teach highschool kids to fly.
My brother used to teach music to K-6th grade. (Now he's works on embeded software for ######) It's just sarcasm. No offense intended to your dad. He sounds like a great guy.


AAmech said:
"And those who can't teach, teach gym."
Woody Allen
[post="236004"][/post]​



LMAO! I forgot about that one! :up:
 

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