US Airways First Company to Step Forward

[CallawayGolf]

Here is how...



All America West Flight attendants have been working with a 1999 contract that expired in 2004. The union and company had been in negotiations for a few years already and were close to a TA by 2005. America West management pulled the rug out from underneath, when (A FEW MONTHS SHORT OF RATIFYING A NEW CONTRACT), they announced the merger with US Airways, and then told AWA F/A's: "OOOOps, Sorry guys, we have to start negotiating from scratch on a new and combined contract, now that we are a new company."
This, in essence, is corporate theft, as AWA F/A's had been working with an expired, amendable, outdated (economywise) and low paying contract. In 2005, they were supposed to achieve that upgrade to work rules and include pay improvements.

As of 2012, it'll have been 13 years of working with a contract that contains substandard wages even when seen in 1999 terms and comparing to other airlines' 1999/2000 contracts.



It was agreed to get the 1999 contract amended to a new contract by, (latest), 2004.
Finish the combined contract or finish the AWA contract. You cannot tell me that it is not possible. At United Airlines, they ratified the CO F/A contract almost a year after the merger with UA. US Airways just chooses not to give it's employees anything. THE MO IS: "If we can get them stuck on 1999 pay scales late into 2020, then we are saving a bundle."



I don't know if you work inside and actually know what each employee group receives, but there is huge disparity between workgroups on the distribution of the this bonus. Alone between the pilots and F/A's there is a huge gap. We all worked hard to achieve the bonus, so why not split the pie without politics in the way. IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY WERE TO SPLIT THAT PROFIT CHECK EQUALLY AROUND THE SYSTEM. BUT THEN AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE UN-AMERICAN.



Have you ever sat down and read the stories behind those nominations? The things that some people get nominated for are sometimes surprising, even to me.

I don't believe in that program. What I believe is in fair and equal treatment to all employees.

You have many complaints but not all (or perhaps any) of them fall at the feet of Management. First, under the RLA (a government run disaster for both labor and Management), labor contracts don't expire, they become amendable. So west FAs are still operating under a valid contract that is currently amendable, but that doesn't change the fact that west FAs are being paid the contractually-agreed upon amount. The merger clearly changed events and blaming Management for pursuing an opportunity to save/protect two airlines and 32,000 jobs is foolish. Doug has said that AWA would have faced serious financial pressures absent the merger. How do you think a stand alone AWA would have help your financial situation in the face of a massive recession and the oil price spikes of 2008?

Second, there are two parties to any negotiation and the AFA has an equal share in allowing the negotiations to drag out this far because they are either incompetent or are making contract requests well beyond what Management (the BOD and Shareholders really) can accept without putting the airline in harm's way. If a fiscally sound and otherwise reasonable contract terms were passed across the table, why would Management not accept? Both sides have interests to protect and skilled negotiators know how to drive the process to a reasonable conclusion. I don't follow this as closely as other topics, but I believe that the initial problem for the AFA was the "me too" clause that required the pilots to attain a JCBA first so that the FAs knew what they were going to have included in their JCBA. Then, when that strategy ran its course, because the east pilots prefer courtrooms to pay increases, the whole strategy had to be adjusted. Last I heard (and I admit to not knowing for sure), Management offered $40M in improvements to complete the negotiations. if that's true then the AFA needs to either send that offer out for ratification or put together a reasonable counter-offer that Management would be willing to accept in lieu of protracted negotiations and NMB involvement. The ball is in the AFAs court the last time I checked so you would be best served channeling your frustrations over their way.

As far as the bonus programs and the A&B program goes, I'm not seeing where they harm or do not help employees. The claim was that the Company does not help it's employees and yet here are three programs which put additional pay into employee's pockets. Two of those three programs are entirely done at the will of Management and they are not contractually obligated to provide them. So the company gives money to charity to be a good corporate citizen and also gives bonus/incentive pay to employees above and beyond the contracted agreements and you want to complain about the manner in which they give/distribute funds. Oh well, you can't make everyone happy I guess.

 

[res_me]

Actually I have a good attitude. I just speak the truth.

Why don't you quit? I don't get why the people who are soooooo unhappy don't quit?

 

[Travelpro72]

I think it's great that the company is helping the hungry even if it is for publicity. Let's talk about the Pantry Of Love for minute shall we? We have flight attendants on the west who are ELIGIBLE FOR FOODSTAMPS and use FOOD BANKS to survive. Give me a God Damn break with your company loving crap on here. Take care of your employees before you go spreading good will amongst others for a spot on camera. What joke. You can all feel free to hit the negative button. Kool Aid drinkers. Just remember THIS, Debbie ALWAYS speaks the truth regardless of how hard it is for you to swallow or believe. Have a good evening all and peace to all. Now to that NCIS show.

 

[res_me]

I think it's great that the company is helping the hungry even if it is for publicity. Let's talk about the Pantry Of Love for minute shall we? We have flight attendants on the west who are ELIGIBLE FOR FOODSTAMPS and use FOOD BANKS to survive. Give me a God Damn break with your company loving crap on here. Take care of your employees before you go spreading good will amongst others for a spot on camera. What joke. You can all feel free to hit the negative button. Kool Aid drinkers. Just remember THIS, Debbie ALWAYS speaks the truth regardless of how hard it is for you to swallow or believe. Have a good evening all and peace to all. Now to that NCIS show.

Why don't you quit? I don't get why the people who are soooo unhappy don't quit?

 

[usfliboi]

Why don't you quit? I don't get why the people who are soooo unhappy don't quit?

They are the people the unions protect and couldnt survive in the real world...thats why!

 

[res_me]

They are the people the unions protect and couldnt survive in the real world...thats why!

Thank you! Exactly!

 

[ContUNITEus]

You have many complaints but not all (or perhaps any) of them fall at the feet of Management. First, under the RLA (a government run disaster for both labor and Management), labor contracts don't expire, they become amendable. So west FAs are still operating under a valid contract that is currently amendable, but that doesn't change the fact that west FAs are being paid the contractually-agreed upon amount. The merger clearly changed events and blaming Management for pursuing an opportunity to save/protect two airlines and 32,000 jobs is foolish. Doug has said that AWA would have faced serious financial pressures absent the merger. How do you think a stand alone AWA would have help your financial situation in the face of a massive recession and the oil price spikes of 2008?

Second, there are two parties to any negotiation and the AFA has an equal share in allowing the negotiations to drag out this far because they are either incompetent or are making contract requests well beyond what Management (the BOD and Shareholders really) can accept without putting the airline in harm's way. If a fiscally sound and otherwise reasonable contract terms were passed across the table, why would Management not accept? Both sides have interests to protect and skilled negotiators know how to drive the process to a reasonable conclusion. I don't follow this as closely as other topics, but I believe that the initial problem for the AFA was the "me too" clause that required the pilots to attain a JCBA first so that the FAs knew what they were going to have included in their JCBA. Then, when that strategy ran its course, because the east pilots prefer courtrooms to pay increases, the whole strategy had to be adjusted. Last I heard (and I admit to not knowing for sure), Management offered $40M in improvements to complete the negotiations. if that's true then the AFA needs to either send that offer out for ratification or put together a reasonable counter-offer that Management would be willing to accept in lieu of protracted negotiations and NMB involvement. The ball is in the AFAs court the last time I checked so you would be best served channeling your frustrations over their way.

As far as the bonus programs and the A&B program goes, I'm not seeing where they harm or do not help employees. The claim was that the Company does not help it's employees and yet here are three programs which put additional pay into employee's pockets. Two of those three programs are entirely done at the will of Management and they are not contractually obligated to provide them. So the company gives money to charity to be a good corporate citizen and also gives bonus/incentive pay to employees above and beyond the contracted agreements and you want to complain about the manner in which they give/distribute funds. Oh well, you can't make everyone happy I guess.

What's the point of your point? Please, you don't need to teach any of us about the RLA and how contracts don't "REALLY" expire. Pretty much everyone on this board is smarter than that. I think you missed the whole point that it was time for a new contract by 2004, that it is why that day was included in the 1999 CB to begin with. The RLA in a sense just makes the status quo continue, otherwise AWA would pull the stunt of imposing it's own $14.00 a flight hour for flight attendants. Trust me, they would, if they could.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Why don't you quit? I don't get why the people who are soooooo unhappy don't quit?

That's most likely sooner than later

 

[VAflyGal]

I find it sad that quite a few people have quit and gone to other airlines, some of whom had more than ten years here. Some people believe in taking care of their internal and external customers. Others believe in the fountain of Kool Aid.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I find it sad that quite a few people have quit and gone to other airlines, some of whom had more than ten years here. Some people believe in taking care of their internal and external customers. Others believe in the fountain of Kool Aid.

"Fountain"? More like the Mississippi River at flood stage.

 

[necigrad]

Doug Parker was here also and was helping in the kitchen at the charity.

Don't suppose he could swing by Vegas and provide some charitable donations to the employees that are and will be furloughed. It's only several hundred of his coworkers that he laid off.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm not taking the company's side, but some of the things mentioned need to be looked at closer.

- Treat the employee groups the same with the bonus. That would mean that 8000 or so FA's would split the same amount of money as 100 or so dispatchers - is each FA getting 1.25% of what each dispatcher gets really what you want?

- The company gives money to charities but should help employees first. The bonus has been mentioned - something close to $400,000 if the payout is only $50/employee. Get a triple play bonus one month and that's $1.2 million going to employees...in one month. The A&B program pays out hundreds of thousand every year. Tuition reimbursement helps employee further their education. Scholarships for employee's children help people attend college who might not have or ease the financial burden of college on their parents. Programs more minor in scope include bereavement leave pay - the employee doesn't have to use sick or vacation time. Discounts at hundreds of stores, events, amusement parks, services, etc save employees money. Exponentially more money is available to employees than goes to charities.

- Cost. Giving every employee a $1/hour raise equals about $5 million a month in extra cost - $60 million a year. Most, if not all, employees want more than an extra $1/hour so make it $5 more/hour - nearly a third of a billion a year. Three years of that without cutting costs or raising revenue puts US in default on loans in three years. If the loans get called in, US is out of business.

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

What's the point of your point? Please, you don't need to teach any of us about the RLA and how contracts don't "REALLY" expire. Pretty much everyone on this board is smarter than that. I think you missed the whole point that it was time for a new contract by 2004, that it is why that day was included in the 1999 CB to begin with. The RLA in a sense just makes the status quo continue, otherwise AWA would pull the stunt of imposing it's own $14.00 a flight hour for flight attendants. Trust me, they would, if they could.

My point is simply that if the FAs actually wanted a JCBA and the enhancements that would accompany it, they would already have it. Same with the pilots. If getting a JCBA based on current economic conditions was really a goal, then it would have been ratified years ago. Both groups could be working on negotiations for their second post merger CBA by now if they had realistic goals and competent negotiating teams back in 2005. I wonder how many more years these groups will continue to reject real improvements in favor of the golden ring that never materializes.

BoeingBoy's post is spot on. Look at the mathematics and understand the range of negotiating flexibility the Company has. A good negotiating team will push the agreement right to the edge of what Management will accept, but will also know when they have crossed the line and gone too far making an agreement impossible. An ineffective negotiating team will negotiate from such an extreme and financially untenable position as to indefinitely delay any hope for an agreement. If your (collective) goal since 2005 has been to get to NMB involvement and to push a new contract out as far as possible, then you have succeeded. If you wanted the best contract possible, then you have failed miserably.

 

[VAflyGal]

My point is simply that if the FAs actually wanted a JCBA and the enhancements that would accompany it, they would already have it. Same with the pilots. If getting a JCBA based on current economic conditions was really a goal, then it would have been ratified years ago. Both groups could be working on negotiations for their second post merger CBA by now if they had realistic goals and competent negotiating teams back in 2005. I wonder how many more years these groups will continue to reject real improvements in favor of the golden ring that never materializes.

BoeingBoy's post is spot on. Look at the mathematics and understand the range of negotiating flexibility the Company has. A good negotiating team will push the agreement right to the edge of what Management will accept, but will also know when they have crossed the line and gone too far making an agreement impossible. An ineffective negotiating team will negotiate from such an extreme and financially untenable position as to indefinitely delay any hope for an agreement. If your (collective) goal since 2005 has been to get to NMB involvement and to push a new contract out as far as possible, then you have succeeded. If you wanted the best contract possible, then you have failed miserably.

And OUR point is that we are NOT going to settle for a JCBA with concessionary health insurance, NO raise for the east f/a's. (NO as in ZERO above what we are already getting), gutting scope language, a substandard reserve section, no bid sheet, preferential bidding, a split from the pilots... I could go on and on. So, friend, you're right... we could probably have a JCBA by now if we were willing to bend over and take it, but alas, friend, aint gonna happen, and unless management gets serious about meaningful increases, we are going to take it to a strike vote, which, MARK MY WORDS, will pass, and we will CHAOS it down to the bone.

We are WAITING for the moment because we have had enough.

<click>

 

[CallawayGolf]

And OUR point is that we are NOT going to settle for a JCBA with concessionary health insurance, NO raise for the east f/a's. (NO as in ZERO above what we are already getting), gutting scope language, a substandard reserve section, no bid sheet, preferential bidding, a split from the pilots... I could go on and on. So, friend, you're right... we could probably have a JCBA by now if we were willing to bend over and take it, but alas, friend, aint gonna happen, and unless management gets serious about meaningful increases, we are going to take it to a strike vote, which, MARK MY WORDS, will pass, and we will CHAOS it down to the bone.

We are WAITING for the moment because we have had enough.

<click>

So you have been waiting for six years plus whatever amount of time you may prefer to add in pre-merger for both groups and you still have quite a ways to go with absolutely no guarantee that you will get released to self-help in 1, 2 of 5 more years of NMB mediated talks. That's your plan for ultimate success?

Note to Management: the FAs are perfectly happy staying on their current contracts and receiving no increase in wages for many more years to come . They are far too busy dreaming of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to worry about getting a contract done today. I wonder how many millions in savings that calculates out to, especially using the time value of money formulas?

Do you think the company will still be here then? Many of the east pilots, with the help of USAPA, are trying to burn the place down long before you get your shot which would leave you with nothing to collect. What do you get then? Or, what if the company completes another merger and you get thrown into a situation where a much larger population of FAs prefer to be non-union (DL) or they don't agree with your scorched earth plan? Will waiting for six to ten years with nothing to show for it be worth it then? What if you have to go out on medical or something else happens which ends your career? Will it be worth it then? The point is the future can throw many curve balls at you and completely wreck your plans. Why oh why didn't I invest in Apple back in 1992 when I was predicting to my college buddy that they would not only survive the Microsoft domination but would ultimately over take them as the worlds largest tech company? Knowing what I know now, I see just how big of a mistake I made by not making an investment back then that would have paid off big time for me now. Knowing what the future holds is tenuous to downright impossible for us mortals.