Us Airways, Pilots Union Near Cost-cutting Accord

USA320Pilot

Veteran
May 18, 2003
8,175
1,539
www.usaviation.com
US Airways, Pilots Union Near Cost-Cutting Accord - Contract Would Reduce Pay by 17.5%

"I'm optimistic we can get this done. There are very few things left to resolve," said Bill Pollock, chairman of the airline's pilots union.

See Story

US Airways unions race clock to avoid big cut in pay - Pilots, airline remain close to a deal

See Story

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
 
AFA's proposal is an "emergency relief" proposal. NOT the long-term proposal.

The pay cut in AFA proposal is not what anyone can endure, but its for 6 months, and AFA wants the wage cost savings value to be returned after 2 consequtive profits are reported. The following quarter will commene the returns of these monies to the f/as over 6 months. The temporary wage give is a "deferral".

WE WANT THE MONEY BACK... NO FREE INTEREST LOAN.


If the company does not agree...then we may endure the 23%...BUT THERE WILL BE NO RATIFICATION OF A LONG-TERM TRANSFORMATION CONTRACT!

If they succeed in abrogation; we will asked to be released and commence with "self help" actions!
 
Flight attendant leaders passed a motion yesterday sending a counterproposal to the airline that offers a pay cut less than 23 percent and asks for something in return if the company becomes profitable. "We have no choice," said Teddy Xidas, local president of the Association of Flight Attendants. Flight attendants "can't endure 23 percent."

PitBull, in my opinion, it looks like the F/A's are getting a 23% pay cut next week, which could become permanent and then the "self help" option eliminated by the court. How many times has Judge Mitchell not approved a company motion?

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
USA320Pilot said:
PitBull, in my opinion, it looks like the F/A's are getting a 23% pay cut next week, which could become permanent and then the "self help" option eliminated by the court. How many times has Judge Mitchell not approved a company motion?

Regards,

USA320Pilot
[post="186416"][/post]​

USA320,

Well, we just may see. ..

AFA proposal to the company is "emergency relief" only. We demand a return on our sacrifice after the company has reported profits in 2 consequtive quarters. The return will be over 6 months back to the f/as. This is $30 million AFA is proposaing over 6 months. The 23% is $60 million.

This relief is not being offered as permanent. This is a wage deferral.

After the hearing, AFA will discuss long-term proposal. However, none of it will fly well with our group, if the "AFA emergency relief" is rejected.

The Post Gazette will be reporting our "hit" in a chart in the next few days

. For example: The 6-year f/a LTO reserve will be down to $21,000 per year with a 23% pay cut. The top-out f/a will be down to a little over $30,000 flying 80 hours per month average.

Won't work for us...

PS: BTW, A corporation called pIT afa office yesterday offering career opportunites to our group first, before hiring anyone lese. This CEO said that these are career opportunities with benefits and 401K. He said he has been following the papers and has never seen a managment so horrific in his years of business.

This will be e-lined in PIT when the info is received.
 
Since when can't a unionized work group NOT strike a backrupt company ???


It's my understanding that the IAM will not give Bronner "1 red cent", and if they have a 23% pay cut imposed on them by the court,
AND, they cannot strike, (which I think they can), they will grind US to a halt via "work to rule"

Bottom line USA320Pilot, I see EASTERN, all over again.
I'll assume you've prepared for that scenario !!!

NH/BB's
 
The is no elimination of self-help, if the contracts are abrogated self-help is an option, however it is not an option in 1113e, and that is temporary relief, not permenant.
 
I can tell you this as an AFA member... AFA best head off a 23% cut however they must. If those 3 members of the negotiating committee need to lock themselves in a hotel room the entire weekend and duke it out then DO IT. I am still AMAZED that we have only 3 negotiators on a 4 member negotiating committee and our Local 70 President for AFA refuses to fill the 4th seat. We have people in there with very little to NO experience negotiating. And please don't count Ms. Burt. We have Perry Hayes and Mollie McCarthy and then Carol Austin which is not even an elected official of AFA. So, tell me my after repeated attempts to fill that 4th, why seat certain AFA LEC's refuse to fill the seat> Political BS power plays. It's a disgrace when your sitting across from 17 of the nations highest priced labor attorneys, company VP's, ect....and then on the other side we have the AFA 3 people. For the love of Mary! :blink:
I better get a cup of coffee before I really get riled up on this crap.
 
PITbull said:
AFA proposal to the company is "emergency relief" only. We demand a return on our sacrifice after the company has reported profits in 2 consequtive quarters.


The profit sharing plan is designed to return money to employees when we are profitable.

If we returned the money, by definition there would be no savings.
 
HAWK,

FYI... to you and your cronies....

"Emergency relief 1113 (e)" is not a long term cost savings plan. IT IS TO FREE UP CASH WHILE WE ARE IN BANKRUPTCY, since U has no DIP financier and WE ARE IT!

Its in the same context as the 5% deferral, which was a response to the "war effect".

So, "pipe it" guy.
 
usairboy,

AFA is working on a separate "relief" proposal as a response to the 1113 (e). They are not working on the Long-term transformation proposal at this juncture.

The negotiating committee brings the proposed provisions to the MEC, and are reveiwed together, make motions and suggestions. The MEC has much input and influence in these concessionary proposals.

The entire MEC reviews all proposals BEFORE they are presented to the co. The negotiating committee does not meet with the co. with proposals until the entire MEC has reviewed and agrees or disagrees with the relief provisions.
 
PITbull,

You don't REALLY think the "temporary" / "emergency" relief won't become permanent, do you?
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
Bottom line USA320Pilot, I see EASTERN, all over again.
I'll assume you've prepared for that scenario !!!

NH/BB's
[post="186425"][/post]​

I don't think the IAM has the stomach like they did with Eastern. AMFA is a lot stronger since then and a big threat which the IAM must consider. Big talk is all this is and it's only on these boards. I don't see major IAM union leaders going head to head with the company on here like I do other unions. The IAM will not bring the company down.

AS PER DELLDUDE in another topic:


guy.....when the paycut is imposed between 10-7 and 10-15 they will still be working.....any job action at that time will be a wildcat.....
however it will open up 60 days of negotiations per section 1113e.....
and be advised per the U 1113e filing, they’ve asked for a provision to outsource in the event of a work stoppage/slowdown by IAM covered employees and i'm willing to bet they will get it.

so at the end of the day somewhere down the road IAM will be voting on some type of contract modification again like it or not.
vote no if you don't like it.
 
Bear,

Certain aspects, yes. Wage....no.

There is a co. provision that is requesting that the co. will increase the f/a flying obligation to 5 or 10 hours and/or 1 additional ITD trip requirement set on a monthly basis depending on coverage over the next few months. The co. is preparing for "unforseen" mass resignations.

As a response to that AFA has countered that the c/s director will make this determination, not INflight VP and that when this is in effect, the reserve guarantee goes to 75 and no discipline will be rendered for those who don't meet that additional flying requirement.

That is an example of what is just temporary. The wage relief, the return of funds for this 6 month relief is as well. Thats AFA's counter to the 1113e.
 
700UW said:
The is no elimination of self-help, if the contracts are abrogated self-help is an option, however it is not an option in 1113e, and that is temporary relief, not permenant.
[post="186443"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanx, "700".
I was pretty certain that it would be you to answer "that" particuliar question for me.

Thanx again

NH/BB's
 
USAirBoyA330 said:
I can tell you this as an AFA member... AFA best head off a 23% cut however they must. If those 3 members of the negotiating committee need to lock themselves in a hotel room the entire weekend and duke it out then DO IT. I am still AMAZED that we have only 3 negotiators on a 4 member negotiating committee and our Local 70 President for AFA refuses to fill the 4th seat. We have people in there with very little to NO experience negotiating. And please don't count Ms. Burt. We have Perry Hayes and Mollie McCarthy and then Carol Austin which is not even an elected official of AFA. So, tell me my after repeated attempts to fill that 4th, why seat certain AFA LEC's refuse to fill the seat> Political BS power plays. It's a disgrace when your sitting across from 17 of the nations highest priced labor attorneys, company VP's, ect....and then on the other side we have the AFA 3 people. For the love of Mary! :blink:
I better get a cup of coffee before I really get riled up on this crap.
[post="186470"][/post]​

USAirboyA330,

Did you see the movie Titanic when the crowd was panicng and one of the characters says "it's falling apart"?

That's our company. In the past few weeks I have sat quietly by reading the insanities of people here, inparticularly some of our union "leadership". Emotion is important as a human but it has taken over the mess that IS US Airways. As an AFA member who pays my dues, it's time for Teddy to resign. Her emotion has taken over logic. She is not fighting for the collective f/a group. All that "I represent my membership" BS is a smoke screen to an overinflated narsisistic, selfish ego that insist on being right. If anyone disagrees with her, all her years of bent up emotional pain is lashed at you or in this case it will be me. While the good of the PIT f/a's should be a concern, the PIT LEC is part of the MEC, which is the ENTIRE US Airways AFA. Right now, the overwhelming majority could careless what happens to PIT since the base is getting smaller. We are fighting for our survival and anything short of doing what's right for ALL the f/a's now is crazy.

This attempt to make demands at a time when we are 4 months of being history is part of the old union thinking that most people in this country hate, including myself. If anyone thinks a judge is going to agree to what Teddy is suggesting, well I have a piece of land in the Everglades that will perk. This is the same judge that stripped the pilots of their pension with no hesitation. Do you think he is going to all of a sudden care about labor now? All I have to say about that is, Thank you Teddy, the part of Norma Rae has been cast.

There seems to be no middle ground here. On one side you have Norma Rae, a.k.a. Pitbull, and the other side Scarlette O'Hara,a.k.a,. a certain 320 capt. Both think and so desperately want to be right. If not , one comes at you LIKE a Pitbull and the other stabs you with a condiscending "Respectively Yours". Neither are right, neither are wrong. Most of us are in the middle.

Here we go. I, just a run in the mill f/a on the line, has had my eyes and ears open to what my co-workers are saying. 90% want us to do what we can to keep the company going. We want much less than a 23% cut but know we will have to still bite it. Most of us realize that while educated, entry level jobs will still pay less then the cut that will eventually come at around 15%-17% (est) if an agreement is reached like the pilots.

We like our lifestyle. There is still no other job that offers the kind of flexibility and manipulation of schedules and time off that we have. That is worth it's weight in gold. While this will be compromised, it is still better then a 9-5. We like that every day is different and genuinely like our jobs. We would like to see those that are so miserable take the skills they brag about and go elsewhere so that those that are here to work can work, as opposed to those sticking it out for the cause. Most of those I fly with are tired of the feeling that if you aren't a hardliner who feels full pay to the last day, that you are weak or bedwetters.

I and many others are fed up, but for many of us workerbees, we would rather have a more stable US Airways (if that is possible) and have enough breathing room to look for another career without an element of pressure or panic, then to just go out there and grab something out of fear.

I have spoken to many former US Airways employees. All have said there is life after US Airways, but most admitted they regretted leaving. I have also spoken to many VF1 and most of them coming back are excited even though things suck here. They have gotten a dose of the grind of 9-5, 2 weeks vacation (if), and insurance premiums much higher than what we pay...if you even HAVE insurance. And lets not forget having a boss that you must answer to and see everyday.

So please understand that most of us would love to come out of this smelling like roses and would love all bases to survive, all old ones brought back, all 500 a/c we use to have flying, all 10,000 f/a's back, and an utopian airline where everyone flies for $39 and we all get huge wage increase, and everyone loves us. BUT, we DON'T have that leverage. That DON'T need us...we DO need them if we want to survive. If we don't cooperate or "capitulate", they will just simply liquidate. They have the upper hand and all the threats of work stoppage will gain no sympathy from them OR the flying public because you see, my dears, the country doesn't need US Airways. Until some around here fully register that in their brain, they will go around in circles like a puppy chasing his tail.

Having said that, let the bashing begin.