US Pilots Labor Thread 2/9-2/16

[cleardirect]

"Somehow you seem to think that me or the west imposed this list on your group." Is not imposing the glorious Nic on the east the entire purpose of the west's "Righteous Position"?..and any/all of your attempted litigation? Do you honestly expect "a pass" on any moral or intellectual level, while trying to force something like that on others because the Nic's "not your fault"?

A more accurate word would be enforcing or implementing an agreed bargain. You certainly put a lot of emphasis on “moral or intellectualâ€￾. How about the moral or intellectual of living up to your agreements?

"There is no way that I or anyone is going convince your FO." You've got that right, without the slightest doubt. What a truly marvelous working enviornment this place would be should the Nic insanity ever see the light of day. Good luck playing "senior" to people with more than an entire decade of service than yourself if it ever does.

The same could be said for usapa imposing a made up one sided list. As I said it is about acceptance. Are you saying that there are east pilot that will be unable to accept the outcome? Are you saying that if the Nicolau is implemented that east pilots will create a hostile work environment?

I was "brought up", if you will, to respect any greater level of experience than I have/had myself, and longer service performed by any others. My belief is that honest respect for others who've done more and given more than myself, is part of a fully proper and well-reasoned approach by which to live a decent life. As a result; I find the Nic nonsense to be a combined exercise in immorality and insanity...period. I'd go so far as to say even a spiritual illness. We'll simply never see eye to eye on any aspect of this. The lines are drawn and it'll play out however it will.

Were you also brought up to honor your agreements? Do you have the honor to do hand shake deals? Do you always look for a loop hole to get out of a deal after it is made? You may find the Nicolau to be "nonsense, immoral, insane"€￾. Your opinion. But when you allowed your leaders to make the deal and Nicolau to make the decision it was out of hands. As I said accept the results of the deal you made or move on.

If you could answer my question. How would you convince a senior captain at AWA Someone that has been here practically from the doors opening. Why it is reasonable to place him and all other pilots below someone that was not flying an airplane or producing anything for the airline at the time of the merger? 85% of the west goes below your furloughs. Convince the senior captain that is moral and intellectual.

 

[EastUS]

Were you also brought up to honor your agreements? Do you have the honor to do hand shake deals? Do you always look for a loop hole to get out of a deal after it is made?

These are not things you would say to my face...young "sir". As I previously noted. and with your reply, now feel ever more comfortable with; The Nic obsession's indicative of an actual spiritual illness.

Best leave it the lawyers sonny boy. Over and out.

 

[N924PS]

East:

Perhaps you should once again retire to the cornfield, of your own volition.

You asked Direct a question. He reponded with a cogent, well written response. All you can do is respond with condescending remarks like "sonny boy"?

I think Direct would make his case to your face. His opinion, while divergent from yours, carries the same weight. He simply makes his case more eloquently and convincingly.

But then, that is for the Judge to decide. And soon I hope.

 

[Schultz]

[

But then, that is for the Judge to decide. And soon I hope.
[/quote]


Which Judge? The MDA Judge or the Phoenix Judge. Lots of Judges before this one settled.

 

[Metroyet]

I've an hypothetical exercise for you Clear, should you be so kind as to accept it. Imagine yourself and first officer and myself and FO arriving at the same hotel. "My" FO has 21 years LOS. Let's say that both your FO and myself head towards the desk. In as simple and realistically brief a presentation as you can make possible...do tell us all exactly how you would convince the person with the 21 years why your mere 11 should place you permanently "senior" to him/her? Remember..Nicolau will be nowhere to be found standing around in that lobby. This oughtta' be good ....

Here's what I would tell "your" F.O.:

"I don't care what you think, you don't care what I think either...big deal. That's what Binding Arbitration is all about"

Then I walk away.

I don't have to explain myself to anybody. You knew what you were getting into with Nicalau. Not my problem...whine/cry all want, but We owe the East Exactly nothing and I have zero interest "convincing" any Eastie of anything. Because, once again, I don't care what you think.

 

[sharktooth]

East:

Perhaps you should once again retire to the cornfield, of your own volition.

You asked Direct a question. He reponded with a cogent, well written response. All you can do is respond with condescending remarks like "sonny boy"?

I think Direct would make his case to your face. His opinion, while divergent from yours, carries the same weight. He simply makes his case more eloquently and convincingly.

But then, that is for the Judge to decide. And soon I hope.

The question was changed by "direct", an entity whose tagline reveals even it does not believe in what it says through the attempt to impose it's own "reality".

"direct" made no case, utilizing no cogency, much less intellect. It knows that any bargain made utilizing false information, both as to lists, health of the corporations and who "bought" whom will fail in any court of law.

Ask yourself about Barbell, the corporation that subsumed America West, a subsidiary owned by US. Who bought who? Whose list became defunct, just as if their company went away? At best, reality would suggest the west pilots should have been tagged onto the bottom of the east list, a result no east pilot would accept, having lived through several such abortions.

Ask yourself about the veracity of the lists submitted to the arbitrator, were they correct or subject to change? The people "verifying" the list, ALPA, were the ones to benefit the most from the cram-down that occurred. ALPA simply wanted to reduce liability for past idiocy.

"direct" simply wishes to hold onto what it thinks is a winning lottery ticket. Don't blame him. They have a place in Hyde Park for people like it, speakers corner.

 

[Phoenix]

Which Judge? The MDA Judge or the Phoenix Judge. Lots of Judges before this one settled.

I have heard it said that ALPA has done a lot more to further the profession of law than aviation.

 

[N924PS]

I have heard it said that ALPA has done a lot more to further the profession of law than aviation.

And USAPA continues the tradition......

 

[traderjake]

The Nic obsession's indicative of an actual spiritual illness.

Hiding behind DOH to steal another man's job is unethical and your refusal to see that indicates mental illness.

 

[nostradamus]

The Las Vegas and Phoenix hubs, primarily leisure markets, made america west airlines vulnerable to an economic downturn.


Phoenix Airport Hit by Economy

 

[Furlough Fodder]

The Las Vegas and Phoenix hubs, primarily leisure markets, made america west airlines vulnerable to an economic downturn.


Phoenix Airport Hit by Economy

Now it makes US Airways vulnerable to the downturn. What is bad for the West ends up being bad for the health of the whole company.

 

[sharktooth]

Now it makes US Airways vulnerable to the downturn. What is bad for the West ends up being bad for the health of the whole company.

Not as long as there are "separate" operations. Have a good day, sir!

 

[Hawkhunter]

Here's what I would tell "your" F.O.:

"I don't care what you think, you don't care what I think either...big deal. That's what Binding Arbitration is all about"

Then I walk away.

I don't have to explain myself to anybody. You knew what you were getting into with Nicalau. Not my problem...whine/cry all want, but We owe the East Exactly nothing and I have zero interest "convincing" any Eastie of anything. Because, once again, I don't care what you think.

And we dont give a shoot what you Westies think either. Actually, I am quite bored with all of you so, this board is all yours. Good luck in court and dont forget to pay your dues. We would hate to see any of our brothers out West get in to any trouble. Not my Problem!

 

[cleardirect]

Not as long as there are "separate" operations. Have a good day, sir!

That to will pass soon. Short term thinking.

Before the merger AAA was unable to compete in it’s form. Shrinking the west would only return the east to it’s past form. Unable to compete or make a profit. So true statement. What is bad for the west is bad for the company which is bad for the east.

We also have a T/A that limits some of the damage. PHX/LAS have had our cuts. The east coast may get your turn.

 

[V1cut]

That to will pass soon. Short term thinking.

Before the merger AAA was unable to compete in it’s form. Shrinking the west would only return the east to it’s past form. Unable to compete or make a profit. So true statement. What is bad for the west is bad for the company which is bad for the east.

We also have a T/A that limits some of the damage. PHX/LAS have had our cuts. The east coast may get your turn.

Well, it's not the same company any longer, now is it? Ancillary fees, BOB, and the new strategerie make your point void. The fact is, what is bad for the west is directly bad for the west under seperate operations:witness your furloughs. The fact is, Parker and company are delighted with seperate ops...saving them $100 million/year in parity alone. You and your friends are blaming USAPA for stalled negotiations, when indeed it is the company who is dragging their feet at the table...the scope case, for example.

Short-term thinking?

Your Addington case gets heard before a jury...in every detail, and they tried to wiggle out of it through veiled twists which Wake shut down. Those details are going to scuttle their case, and they know it.

Thats short-term thinking.