US Pilots Labor Thread 2/9-2/16

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

And under seperate ops, your markets will be gone soon too....or did you miss that day?

da brotha

K den Brah...Howzit? So we haven't learned anything from the past?

Yeah, anything can happen-just look at PIT.

Which day are you referring to, the day Uncle Ed decided to go national or the day that WN moved into BWI? East is the money maker-right?

Disenfranchising a significant portion of your natural constituency is probably not the best way to represent that group but according to you they won't be around long anyway-they'll be back East.

I've been here a long time, more than 15 years-how's your seniority doing? I hope it's good. It's only been the same for the last 15 years and getting worse-some much to look forward to-isn't there?

More warm and fuzzy union schmooze.

Mahalos and Good Luck

Da Bruddahs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyqptrupmqQ

 

[Mr. Big]

K den Brah...Howzit? So we haven't learned anything from the past?

Yeah, anything can happen-just look at PIT.

Which day are you referring to, the day Uncle Ed decided to go national or the day that WN moved into BWI? East is the money maker-right?

Disenfranchising a significant portion of your natural constituency is probably not the best way to represent that group but according to you they won't be around long anyway-they'll be back East.

I've been here a long time, more than 15 years-how's your seniority doing? I hope it's good. It's only been the same for the last 15 years and getting worse-some much to look forward to-isn't there?

More warm and fuzzy union schmooze.

Mahalos and Good Luck

Da Bruddahs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyqptrupmqQ

Word.
Dis brotha is fine...and tired of having non-union types throw LOA 93 in his face...I know very well what has happened in the last 15 years, brah...before many of our west "friends" were even employed at A&W.....I need no lecture about possibilities...they do. It looks like the possibility of getting furloughed never crossed their young minds after...oh, lawdy....4 years of service to the A&W...and when faced with a furlough, these bruddah's want to criss-cross the nation and fly East metal even under seperate operations...seems when it comes to West pilots'...there's no rules.
No union schmooze here....just another East pilot who has had enough west threats for one career...thank you.

 

[Furlough Fodder]

.....I need no lecture about possibilities...they do. It looks like the possibility of getting furloughed never crossed their young minds after...

Actually most of the West pilots don't need the lecture either. They all saw what happened to the PSA markets the last time US Air mergered with an entity on the other side of the country.

 

[Mr. Big]

Hopefully not because a slow contraction eastward repeating what happened after the PSA merger surely does not make a strong competitor out of US Airways.

So if the company wasn't in separate ops then these markets would stay? Those in charge are going to either keep or drop markets no matter what a bunch of fighting pilots do.

In my opinion it is better to fight for what you believe in then to sacrifice your values.

Not to be blunt here, but there's no "Eastward contraction" that will include west pilots under seperate operations...any shrinkage out west (or east) will cost members of that operation jobs...there is plenty of fear-mongering going on. Just recently, some west pilots realized that USAPA could conceivably negotiate their min fleet numbers with Mr. Hemenway. I'm sure USAPA has no intention of doing that, but the fear-based anxiety out west reveals itself every day. Witness Mr. Metroyet who almost daily suggests that LOA 93 will be around a long time (as if he has any say in the matter). From a "gloating perspective" this is the best he can muster as some whispered challenge designed to "flex" at the East.

Both sides are fighting for what they believe in, to be sure.
The West believe they own the East, NIC reinforced that belief, and they are waffling in every legal direction possible to retain the vast pasture of seniority that NIC gave them at the expense of the East. Of course, the recent Wake decision is a huge setback for them.

The East will not stand idly by while the "clearedirect's of the world waltz into the room and walk off senior to a guy with 25 years...it's wrong and the whole world outside of Arizona knows it.

That the west has to comply with section 29 is academic...ALL union shops do. That they object to spending $ to litigate AND pay dues or fees to USAPA ? Also academic.

Y'inz can carry on from there.(for Cluebyfour)

 

[Furlough Fodder]

The East will not stand idly by while the "clearedirect's of the world waltz into the room and walk off senior to a guy with 25 years...it's wrong and the whole world outside of Arizona knows it.

I am sure those on the West will tell you that they are not going to sit around while the East reneges on an agreement that they signed. So guess what? It goes to the courts and we can see which side gets to puff out their chests in victory after the trial is over.

If it is so obviously wrong BTW then why did the USAPA attorney not succeed in getting count 3 from the plantiffs' complaint dismissed? After all the legal representatives of the company got their complaints removed from the suit.

 

[Pi brat]

I have yet to demand or even consider using any service of that union, so I am (not) paying for services (not) rendered. In fact that union is trying to take away something I earned fair and square - something that cost each of the America West pilots a significant amount of money.

That union does not deserve one single cent of my income.

And that's the point here.

You really need to take the integrity matters off your signature as you have no clue what it means, or you use it when you want. You scream for all the world to hear that USAPA inherited the Nic award along with the ALPA contracts, but you ignore the fact that they also inherited your contract that requires you to pay your dues.

 

[nic4us]

Not to be blunt here, but there's no "Eastward contraction" that will include west pilots under seperate operations...any shrinkage out west (or east) will cost members of that operation jobs

The East will not stand idly by while the "clearedirect's of the world waltz into the room and walk off senior to a guy with 25 years...it's wrong and the whole world outside of Arizona knows it.

That the west has to comply with section 29 is academic...ALL union shops do. That they object to spending $ to litigate AND pay dues or fees to USAPA ? Also academic.

Y'inz can carry on from there.(for Cluebyfour)

Mr. Big

I think you may have missed the day we merged. Reduction of routes that were associated with one side does not necessitate loss from that side , it will all boil down to which side keeps airplanes, not routes. So if the company decides to loose some old West markets but reduces say old east 737 fleet, east looses jobs not West, and I get to fly CLT-FLL etc., as I waltz in from my PHX domicile.

Section 29 only applies to employees eligible for union membership. Unfortunateley in their quest to steamroll the West, USAPA failed to initially offer the West equal representational membership in their lets get rid of the Nic dance club.

Cleardirect has about 11 years longevity, but does not waltz. He is senior to an east pilot with about 21 years longevity not 25 and I am talking todate not at the time of the merger. Sorry the arbitrator did not feel he and 80% of the aquiring company, including over 50% of the captain ranks, should be placed below east furloughs with less LOS.

I travel extensively outside Arizona and find that what the whole world knows is that we had a difficult list to combine. That a solution was reached by binding arbitration. That one party to that agreement is not happy with the results, and has proven to be a crooked, decietful group, unworthy of trust normally afforded people of integrity, much less those who know how to dance.

So, stand idly by or be proactive as you try to twirl your way around your obligations, that choice is yours. The orchestra is packing up, the dance is over.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

You really need to take the integrity matters off your signature as you have no clue what it means, or you use it when you want. You scream for all the world to hear that USAPA inherited the Nic award along with the ALPA contracts, but you ignore the fact that they also inherited your contract that requires you to pay your dues.

You have inadvertently and unintentionally, I'm sure, hit upon why many of us maintain the stance we do. Thanks for stating our case.

You have admitted that usapa is nothing more than a bunch of cherry pickers. Therefore, when they choose to honor their commitments, I will honor mine.

The integrity matters signature remains intact. And there's no screaming coming from this keyboard - just quiet, steady determination; a veritable glacier of righteousness, crawling, creaking, and crushing its way down inexorably from on-high to banish, once and for all, the infantile neospore that is usapa into the frigid arctic waters.

 

[Pi brat]

You have inadvertently and unintentionally, I'm sure, hit upon why many of us maintain the stance we do. Thanks for stating our case.

You have admitted that usapa is nothing more than a bunch of cherry pickers. Therefore, when they choose to honor their commitments, I will honor mine.

The integrity matters signature remains intact. And there's no screaming coming from this keyboard - just quiet, steady determination; a veritable glacier of righteousness, crawling, creaking, and crushing its way down inexorably from on-high to banish, once and for all, the infantile neospore that is usapa into the frigid arctic waters.

Ah, I get it, your ethics say that you only have to act properly when everyone else acts properly, according to your thinking. You can ignore rules, laws etc., if you think another party is doing the same in some other area. None of that nasty gold rule, take the high ground stuff. I'm afraid too many Americans are thinking just like you, hence the mess our country is in now.

Screaming? No, incessant whining is more like it.

Integrity, indeed.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Ah, I get it, your ethics say that you only have to act properly when everyone else acts properly, according to your thinking. You can ignore rules, laws etc., if you think another party is doing the same in some other area. None of that nasty gold rule, take the high ground stuff. I'm afraid too many Americans are thinking just like you, hence the mess our country is in now.

Screaming? No, incessant whining is more like it.

Integrity, indeed.

So now this whole thing is about me? This is the exact modus operendi you usapians have been using for nearly a year now. You can't seem to defeat the message, so you hammer the messengers.

Remember, the Nic was first. Usapa was spawned later. It is usapa that's ignoring the rules here. It is usapa that has no integrity regarding their commitments to (all) pilot seniority.

Pitiful.....

 

[EastUS]

Cleardirect has about 11 years longevity, but does not waltz. He is senior to an east pilot with about 21 years longevity ....

Umm..and this degree of "fair and equitable", utterly absurd obscenity actually "makes sense" to you out west? :blink: What a complete surprise that the two sides don't get along

To the east posters: I truly admire your patience. Mine's long since exhausted with that sort of "Integrity"-ridden/self-obsessed insanity.

Have a good one all.

PS: I've no real concerns for how well anyone does or doesn't waltz. I'd dare go so far as to note that even the finest possible foxtrot perfromance isn't worth 10 years of another man's life by way of supposed "seniority". BS's BS period.

 

[Pi brat]

So now this whole thing is about me? This is the exact modus operendi you usapians have been using for nearly a year now. You can't seem to defeat the message, so you hammer the messengers.

Remember, the Nic was first. Usapa was spawned later. It is usapa that's ignoring the rules here. It is usapa that has no integrity regarding their commitments to (all) pilot seniority.

Pitiful.....

No, it is not just about you. Some on both sides have the same position and I have taken them on when I see it. I can assure that many within USAPA wish I didn’t see things the way I do. You claim that you will do what is required when USAPA does what it is required to do. The thing is, the company agrees that you have to pay your dues, it’s still an opinion about the seniority list. That will be settled soon. My gut feeling is that the west will prevail, but it's just that and we will have to leave it to the judge.

 

[EastUS]

You have inadvertently and unintentionally, I'm sure, hit upon why many of us maintain the stance we do. Thanks for stating our case.

You have admitted that usapa is nothing more than a bunch of cherry pickers. Therefore, when they choose to honor their commitments, I will honor mine.

The "]integrity matters" signature remains intact. And there's no screaming coming from this keyboard - just quiet, steady determination; a veritable glacier of righteousness, crawling, creaking, and crushing its way down inexorably from on-high to banish, once and for all, the infantile neospore that is usapa into the frigid arctic waters.

"a veritable glacier of righteousness, " Umm..if you say so sir. You've long ago posted "There were times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself.." claiming Vietnam combat flying and subsequently claimed yourself to be at least 60 years old. The absurdity of your falsely claimed "heroics" in a war you never even came close to flying in, was proven on these very boards by a number of actually experienced pilot posters. Archived links available on request. I'm not wanting to make this personal.but..since you're going on and on about "Integrity"...and you're now "a veritable glacier of righteousness, "???

To the west pilots; I don't believe that degree of utter horse-hockey to be reflective of your group as a whole, for what little that's worth. I would urge some caution in the selection of standard bearers for honest and actual west pilot integrity.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

"a veritable glacier of righteousness, " Umm..if you say so sir. You've long ago posted "There were times when hundreds of troops on the ground maybe didn't get killed because myself.." claiming Vietnam combat flying and subsequently claimed yourself to be at least 60 years old. The absurdity of your falsely claimed "heroics" in a war you never even came close to flying in, was proven on these very boards by a number of actually experienced pilot posters. Archived links available on request. I'm not wanting to make this personal.but..since you're going on and on about "Integrity"...and you're now "a veritable glacier of righteousness, "???

To the west pilots; I don't believe that degree of utter horse-hockey to be reflective of your group as a whole, for what little that's worth. I would urge some caution in the selection of standard bearers for honest and actual west pilot integrity.

You have no clue, east. You have no proof to back your assertions. And yet you choose to attack me based upon your opinion and here-say? If you want to quote my writings, then quote the entire message - just not your edited version.

Your post is not germane to the discussion at hand. It is a pure and poorly disguised personal attack. I will ask you - one time only - to immediately cease these types of posts about myself or any other poster who you don't see eye to eye with.

 

[EastUS]

You have no clue, east. You have no proof to back your assertions.

BS..and you know it. The material you've posted on your "heriocs" is archived on these boards and can be checked by any/all should they wish. I'm trying not to make this so personal an issue as you would have it imagined, save to note that I've got little use for fake "heros" and find them to be, shall we gently say, "somewhat' distasteful. I don't see the need to further embarrass you. as you've got that situation well in hand without any additonal help needed. I don't care a rat's tail for whether or not we've any "eye to eye", and that affects no aspect of my thinking on your conduct. The truth's the truth as to the conduct and misrepresantation on your part and you know it full well. You are absolutely free to repost ANY/all of your prior postings regarding how "there were times" when you saved "hundreds of troops on the ground" in their fullest entirety. It's still a Free country and I certainly wouldn't dream of editing such epic prose.when posted again in it's fullest glory.

I'll again note to any/all west pilots that I do not believe such sorry BS to be reflective of your group as a whole. Do please realize that this is the type of thing that ill serves anyones' purposes here, and further alienates the pilot groups, as east pilots, when bombarded with west rantings about "INTEGRITY" must often "consider the source", and this hardly helps anyone's "case" in the continued disputes, much less any efforts to ever bring the two groups together effectively.

"INTEGRITY MATTERS"....sure does. One must, however, pause reasonbly to reflect upon what the true quality of "INTEGRITY" actually is.

Have Fun.