US Pilots Labor Thread Aug 27-Sep 3 KEEP ON TOPIC

[Barrister]

The east has completely failed to understand PBS. As usual the NAC does not know what they are talking about.

As far as seasonal bids and all of that. I will admit I don’t know much about it. But if I understand it the way I think. All of that excessive training is going to stop. It is expensive and unproductive to have a large percentage of pilots continually in training.

The Kirby proposal is a 20-25% raise for the east. How it is not is beyond me. Please explain how your 60+’s will never see 31 days of vacation.

Again I think all of this is failure to understand the facts. On purpose or by accident.

Yes we get PBS....the 15 year West guy gets Christmas off while the 25 year U guy works a double short EWR 3 day......I THINK NOT

 

[ROACLT]

The east has completely failed to understand PBS. As usual the NAC does not know what they are talking about.

Then why does 90% of the CAL pilot group want to eliminate PBS and go back to PCL's. It improves pilot productivity for the company at the expense of seniority and QOL issues. If it wasn't a sweetheart deal for the company, they wouldn't want it so bad. It is definitely a negative and if it were to be entertained at all, it would require pilot control of the operating parameters.

 

[nic4us]

.......It's just that simple. Some things are worth fighting for, standing one's ground and sacrificing financial gain. We are doing exactly that with eyes wide open. Not by accident at all. On purpose.

So which is it, are you sacrificing financial gain, or realizing your gain through attrition and upward mobility?

Seems some over there have others hoodwinked.

 

[nic4us]

What we don't understand is how you allow a system that doesnt follow strick seniority in bidding.

In some aspects PBS follows seniority more strickly than line bidding.

I am not going to be a PBS cheerleader. Some like it others hate it. It has some drawbacks. But I will say this, I have done a number of different systems, and this is by far the easiest method of bidding I have dealt with.

 

[flyer63]

And the entire blame for that goes to your Merger Committee, whose strings were being pulled by the East MEC. The result you complain of is exactly the risk inherent in the "all or nothing" strategy in negotiations. The arbitrator told you guys to come back with something other than DOH. You didn't, and this is the result. Yet you blame everyone else but those truly responsible for you not getting any credit for active service. Why? It's not ALPA's fault, the West's fault, or the arbitrator and the neutrals. The system worked exactly as it was designed to. Operator error is operator error.

*********

ah no I'm raising the flag and it's not the white flag. In my opinion ALPA failed to do the right thring and Prater is a kitty kat...

He should of come out and said the NIC did not meet ALPA policy. It was a windfall for the west and demanded talks to continue.. Instead he wimped out... because you know ALPA is one big political machine...

 

[N924PS]

Yes we get PBS....the 15 year West guy gets Christmas off while the 25 year U guy works a double short EWR 3 day......I THINK NOT

Wait until the December Bid Packages arrive. You will see plenty of 25 year U guys working over Christmas Holidays.

Even the NYC Busdriver might have to work Christmas this year, and of course he's a 30 year U guy. Think of all the money he's making though!

 

[flyer63]

If you were recalled to group II and displaced to the 190, I hope the second business helps with the income.

Honestly, for the time being I can live with seperte ops, as the TA keeps fleet mins. However, over time seperate ops will become unworkable as the company pits us against one another, keeping us from ganging up on them. Seperate ops may not favor the east in the future, as much as it has to date. Regardless of the attrition.

**********************

I was recalled to Group 2 and remain group 2 RSV and live in Base. I'm at TOS at 84 and change....
and heck I don't want a line I'm happy with short call and working my other business. by the way the other job pays more than this one! So you might try it if you can. At least I can have a discussion with yoiu and you don't just try to throw the 10 years your junior bla bla in our face like some of your counter parts.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes we get PBS....the 15 year West guy gets Christmas off while the 25 year U guy works a double short EWR 3 day......I THINK NOT

Yes but the 15 year guy is bidding PHX. The 25 year guy is bidding PHL. Just like now it has to do with relative seniority.

Last Christmas the guys in LAS. Only the number one guy had X-mas off. Everyone else worked. Guy way junior to them had the day off in PHX. Why. Relative seniority in base. Same thing will happen. It had to do with a small base the flying from there.

 

[cleardirect]

*********

ah no I'm raising the flag and it's not the white flag. In my opinion ALPA failed to do the right thring and Prater is a kitty kat...

He should of come out and said the NIC did not meet ALPA policy. It was a windfall for the west and demanded talks to continue.. Instead he wimped out... because you know ALPA is one big political machine...

At least the majic phrase "in my opinion" is there.

In the opinion of the east the Nicolau did not comply with policy. In the opinion of the arbitrator, the two neutrals, the company and the court. It did comply.

The east brought no evidence to prove that it did not comply. The entire board looked at it and finally passed it to the company. So no in my opinion it is not a windfall. So no need for talks to comtinue.

But who cares. That discussion is long over. There is a federal injunction and Cleary admitted that usapa has pulled the DOH list from the table.

 

[des nudo]

At least the majic phrase "in my opinion" is there.

In the opinion of the east the Nicolau did not comply with policy. In the opinion of the arbitrator, the two neutrals, the company and the court. It did comply.

The east brought no evidence to prove that it did not comply. The entire board looked at it and finally passed it to the company. So no in my opinion it is not a windfall.

So no need for talks to comtinue.

But who cares. That discussion is long over. There is a federal injunction and

Cleary admitted that usapa has pulled the DOH list from the table.

This singular post speaks volumes about the west paradigm. I've highlighted the obviously irrelevent parts of this statement. Lets see:

"the company and the court" were not considering whether or not the Nic complied with ALPA merger policy...have you been sleeping this last year?

"no need for talks to continue" between east and west, I agree...between USAPA and the courts, of course there is, you'll note USAPA has not amended it's CBL's to conform to the Nic..quite the contrary....this is far from over.

"admitting pulling the DOH list from the table".......well, duh? Any other position is "illegal" with Judge Dredd looming around....As has been stated, USAPA will comply with the law (or judges orders)...right up until the appeal...after that: game on again.


I'm happy I could help you wrap your mind around events as they are today.

Oh, and I guess nobody has discussed the latest and greatest from the street...

Just as USAirways east pilots had to adapt to the ridiculous "Cactus" callsign....it seems that it is possible that the AWA west pilots may have to do likewise.

It's easy, (after a few weeks or so)....can you say "Brickyard"?

Oh, the irony.

You're welcome.

 

[ClueByFour]

It's just that simple. Some things are worth fighting for, standing one's ground and sacrificing financial gain. We are doing exactly that with eyes wide open. Not by accident at all. On purpose.

Thus proving once again that not only is "stupid is as stupid does" but one can actually multiply one's mistakes simply by doubling down.

 

[ClueByFour]

Deposition transcripts don’t often get released before the case goes to trial, since objections have to be ruled on by the judge in court. Check with the hp on that. So your not worthy to know what Nicolau swore to.

In that case, let me be blunt: you (and USAPA) are full of it both on what they actually say and what they mean.

In the absence of the raw, your word is essentially that of a propagandist. There is no reasons to believe your spin.

USAPA couldn’t release them anyway. Their MDA property. Mike Haber hit up ALPA for large DFRs before. It looks like he may do it again. One unintended consequence, with the questions Nicolau probably had to answer, even if theyr’e not allowed in trial, Nic will know he was dealing with a bogus list, and he’s still got jurisdiction. Get a clue.

Do some search, my junior-to-the-board friend. I've been calling the demise of your union stupidity since Bradford angrily birthed it in a rage in a bar between WashCo and Cranberry. That large "thunk" noise when the collective USAPA leadership's head hits the asphalt will hurt. Do yourself a favor and bail before that happens.

USAPA had nothing to do with the MDA depositions or release. MDA started before the NIC arbitration. Nice try at connecting the 2, but it doesn’t work. Before another complaint about USAPA stalling, ALPA’s dragged the MDA DFR out four years so far and we’re just now getting around to depositions.

Depose until the cows come home. It's impact on "the Nic" will be nil. Best possible case is that Nicolau (who retains jurisdiction) thinks it over, and places the MDA pilots below the last west hire.

You guys still don't get it. The real world (in the form of the 9th and an LOA 84 loss) is going to hit like a ton of bricks--when you are aviating over the pond in the right seat, I strongly suggest you get ready to get summarily tossed under the nearest bus by the gent to your left--it is the AAA way.

 

[des nudo]

Not likely, my feathery-tongued friend. The two groups aren't ever going to fly together.

 

[jetjok1]

I happened to notice that the east did not demand to capture the current furloughs, something else the West did not bring to the merger.

flyer63 had a legitimate concern that his/her LOS was not given proper credit. Your pilot nuetral had the same concern about the Nic, as it applied to those already recalled when seniority negotiations concluded. However, the reason for the final placement is given in the decision, it is logical and well thought out.

I find it absurd that after the fact, you somehow want to remove a peice of the formula and say this part here, this attrition we have, is no longer negotiable, after negotiations have ended and a decision reached. It is not a status quo you seek. You want the attrition, and the benefits of the merger. You still want to gain at the West expense.

And by the way, the formation of usapa was not an attempt to save some attrition, it is and was a wholesale attempt at stealing from the West what you did not have prior to the merger.

Nic,

You want to gain at our expense and we want to gain at your expense. You keep saying that, as others here, over and over again.
Everything else discussed is plain BS. That's why we are separate forever unless this poor excuse for an airline goes out of business. Of course, you can blame that on us too. Oh, excuse me, you (the west) already has.

 

[Barrister]

Yes but the 15 year guy is bidding PHX. The 25 year guy is bidding PHL. Just like now it has to do with relative seniority.

Last Christmas the guys in LAS. Only the number one guy had X-mas off. Everyone else worked. Guy way junior to them had the day off in PHX. Why. Relative seniority in base. Same thing will happen. It had to do with a small base the flying from there.

Not suprisingly you missed the point again........your 15 years out West UNDER NIC gets you Christmas off in the EAST and the 25 year EAST guy works....UNDER NIC....that's why

VNIIMN