US sniper shot at Koran in Iraq

[Veritas]

Presidents who served.

Dems
Rosevelt - nope
Truman - yes
Kennedy - yes
Johnson - yes
Carter - nope
Clinton - nope

Republicans

Reagan - nope
Bush I - yes
Bush II - nope

Carter graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1946, served on submarines and was selected to serve in the nuclear submarine program.

Reagan was commissioned as a reserve cavalry officer in in 1935. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, he was assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit in the United States Army Air Force where he made training and education films.

Bush 43 was in the Texas Air National Guard between 1968 and 1973 (although he was AWOL during some of that period).

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Fully agreed.

"Although to some it is about being PC; to me, it is about strategy. I liken it to a basketball game." We can stop right there, and we're "done"...No one gets killed paying basketball ..or other "games". The most "savage" ...umm.."games" don't result in thousands of coffins. If you can even remotely consider killing people any "game"..we're on not only different pages..but not even within the same library/bookstore in life.

So funny... to get hung up on an analogy on strategy. No one (or not many) gets killed playing basketball. Does that undercut the importance of strategy in the war setting though? No... on the contrary, most people would agree that even more strategy is required on the battlefield than on the court!!! And most people would agree that it is imperative that the soldiers implement the strategy that has been laid out by their superiors!!! How can you argue against that point!?!?!?

 

[Cosworth]

Carter graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1946, served on submarines and was selected to serve in the nuclear submarine program.

Reagan was commissioned as a reserve cavalry officer in in 1935. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, he was assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit in the United States Army Air Force where he made training and education films.

Bush 43 was in the Texas Air National Guard between 1968 and 1973 (although he was AWOL during some of that period).

I thought I remembered Carter serving but did not verify it. I did not count (apparently nore did the site) count training films as "service".

I did show Bush II as serving but with the disclaimer that we all knew about his story and how be was protecting (Indiana IIRC) from NVA attacks.

 

[Cosworth]

How can you argue against that point!?!?!?

You really asked him that? Just look at his posts and ... well ... you seem like a smart fellow. I think you can figure it out.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

"If you can even remotely consider killing people any "game"..we're on not only different pages..but not even within the same library/bookstore in life." :angry:

I would love to be there when you tell that to David H. Patraeus, Commanding General of the Army; Secretary of Defense Robert Gates; General Odierno of Multinational Corps-Iraq; Lieutenant General H. Steven Blum, Chief, National Guard Bureau; and countless other military officers. What do all these people have in common? They have all used sports analogies (or "games") to describe the situation in and the strategy for Iraq.

I'll leave you with a letter from General Patraeus to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen, and Civilians of the Multi-National Force-Iraq. Patraeus uses a football analogy... perhaps you would have preferred a football analogy similar to the one used by Patraeus over a basketball analogy.

PATRAEUS FOOTBALL ANALOGY

 

[Cosworth]

And here we go again.

Soldier accused of proselytizing in Iraq

We are our own worst enemy.

 

[UAL_TECH]

And here we go again.

Soldier accused of proselytizing in Iraq

We are our own worst enemy.

Sigh :down:

I agree that we are own worst enemy, but in what sense?
The sensationalism of every minor infraction by our ‘troops’ in a nonsensical attempt to ‘reason’ why our troops should leave Iraq now?
Or in the fact that the media kowtows to every little negative tidbit of information to sensationalize the mistreatment of the Iraqi people?
Then we have some whom ‘feed’ off of every negative to justify their ‘belief’ that the US should leave Iraq immediately.

You do know that there are Christians in Iraq?
Giving a 'gift' to Da'Peple is not mandatory either in the offering and/or the acceptance.
Fundamental Islamics are not tolerant of ‘any' other religion.

So tell us cos, what is your 'exit strategy'?

 

[Cosworth]

Well, let me present it this way.

In the beginning of the war, when the people were for our involvement in Iraq, the media coverage was quite favorable IIRC. I think the media is like the chicken/egg question. Does the media reflect general public opinion, or does it create it. I tend to believe that it is a reflection. The people loved Regan when he was in office and it seemed like he could do not wrong. His soldiers were hung out to dry, but he was always treated with kid gloves in my opinion.

The media is a business. They present a product that people want.

As for my exit strat. Gradual pull down over a period of 1-2 years. OR Have Iraq pay for our presence. They have oil, we need oil till we can ween our selves from it. If as some argue, the Iraqis want us there, then they should have no problem paying for it.

We cannot afford to be there free of charge. We went there for oil, lets get it. Our country does not need to be sacrificing American lives with out some sort of pay back.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I disagree.
If we have a ‘plan’ to exit Iraq then more ‘Soldiers’ will die because of it.
If there is to be a ‘pull out’ then lets not offer up our young Heroes for our ‘own’ self centered ‘liberal’ indecisiveness. This is not about being deceived, there was much data disputing the WMD and let us kill Saddam mantra. The House and The Senate supported this ‘conflict’ but decided to change their minds. (Bite Me)

I have seen this coming a few ‘thousand’ miles away as we repeat our own history through arrogance and the ‘Merican’ being sheeple, more willing to blame others for their inaction than their dedication and responsibility as ‘Citizens’ to make their own cognizant decisions.

I hold the ‘Warriors’ more to their word than anyone else. Therein lays my angst with McCain and Kerry (much less Murtha). They should have known better more so than anyone else. There is the conundrum with being a ‘politician’ for if one looses the concept of doing what is best for your country, you loose yourself in the endeavor and get lost the political quagmire of lobbyists and ‘handlers’.

If there is to be an ‘exit plan’ that does not include a well thought out withdrawal handing over power to the Iraqi People (which will take ‘YEARSâ€) then let us cut to the chase and do it expeditiously.

This will of course send their country into civil war and then we can all sit back nice N’comfy and blame it on Bush.

Great Plan! :down:

 

[Cosworth]

You seem to be assuming that the out come will be different depending on when we withdraw. I believe the out come will be the same. The only differences will be the money the US dumps into Iraq and the number of US soldiers who come home in body bags. What ever government the US installs in Iraq will be wiped out soon after the US leaves unless they have the military might to quell the opposition. The the only difference between Hussein and the government we installed is that the Iraqi government may be friendly to the US. How long till they get wiped out? Look at Batista, Pahlavi, Pinochet and the list goes on.