USAir Pilots sue AA pilots

[MetalMover]

Don't need two unions and there won't be two unions. But until the pilots are integrated, there won't be any staplers either. That's why McCaskill-Bond was passed in the first place and APA behavior was the precisely the reason. Two distinct and separate pilot groups represented by two different unions existed prior to this merger. The M-B law fully applies to this transaction. If one union is subsequently decertified, the employee group is still entitled by law to separate representation which is independent and autonomous. Those representational duties would continue to be discharged by the USAirways Merger Committee (formerly USAPA Merger Committee).

Nothing in the MOU relinquishes these rights and the timeline for single carrier status is clearly stipulated as 6-8 months after petitioning the NMB. APA and AAG are hoping it will happen much sooner. But in a contest between federal law and MOU loophole, the law wields the larger gavel.

Otherwise, Senators McCaskill and Bond wasted their efforts.

ALLEGHENY-MOHAWK was put in place to decide fair and equitable seniority integration.
But all of a sudden it was no longer considered FAIR and EQUITABLE by the TWA people because KASHER did not give them 100% in the TWU vs IAM case..
KASHER ruled fair and equitable based on AA's size compared to TWA's size.
 
 
Having said that, I do have to say in the case of AA vs US,,,,we will see dovetails of all employee groups. The TWU and IAM already agreed to it.
I would imagine that if any union decides to take it to the arbitration process, they might have a valid argument and refer the the Kasher ruling which set a precedent.

 

[eolesen]

Why doesn't APA forget any kind of negotiations (Not like USAPA is honest and would honor it anyway) and just call for a new represntative vote from all Pilots?

I like the thinking here, but absent a single carrier ruling, I doubt NMB would act on it.

USAPA will continue until they've pissed away what little money they have left.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I like the thinking here, but absent a single carrier ruling, I doubt NMB would act on it.

USAPA will continue until they've pissed away what little money they have left.

 
Actually, no.  USAPA, or successor LLC, will continue until no longer needed.  As long as the APA, AAG, and AOL decide not to follow federal law to the detriment of the east US pilots, there will be money in place to drag them into court.  The big difference is that USAPA will be assuming the role of plaintiff, whereas it has been the defendant in the various Addington lawsuits.
 
What in the world makes you think that the east pilots are not ready to take this through the last possible appeal?  We will simply steal AOL's playbook, but not make the mistake of choosing to name it after losers.
 
If you think the halting of dues money to USAPA will make this magically stop, THINK AGAIN!

 

[snapthis]

There are East pilots who dare to challenge the men behind the curtain of USAPA. Chip, who writes the piece below, like Trader and Usapawatch irritate the heck out of Usapians. Simply for questioning the actions of the association.

I think the concept is know as free speech. A concept foreign to USAPA which does not even have a message board. The Politburo hates dissenting opinions:

Commentary:
USAPA and their supporter's effort to blame Management and APA for the APA-USAPA ISL state of affairs is simply nonsense. USAPA did this to them self.

I know the commentary below is not going to be favorably read by East pilots, but Im not going to sugar coat the problem and tell pilots what they want to hear. Nor am I going to twist the facts, use sentence fragments to mislead, or unprofessionally argue a point where Im viewed as operating with contumacious" behavior," which is to be obstinately disobedient, rebellious, and insubordinate, which are used to describe USAPA and the union's officials by management in federal court.

Instead this discussion is like the "No Spin Zone that will cut through USAPAs rhetoric and misleading commentary.

The issue is that USAPA negotiated the MOU, along with APA, AMR, LCC, and the UCC. USAPA authorized a SCC proceeding where APA would likely become our agent before a M-B arbitration, if held. The issue is not Judge Silvers ruling. Silver simply wrote about the RLA, Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs Section 3 and 13, and the MOU where she agreed with USAPAs position that only the certified collective bargaining agent can negotiate seniority.

I believe the intent of the M-B statute is to provide a fair and equitable process that could result in an ISL arbitration conducted by two parties that remain independent throughout the process. The M-B statute does not envision the parties would negotiate a contract that creates SCC before the ISL arbitration is held. By ratifying the MOU US Airways pilots unknowingly authorized a path for APA to become our union and to take over our representation without USAPA input.

Then USAPA compounded its problem when it successfully argued against US Airways Summary Judgment seeking a court order where pat Szymanski successfully argued a part of the union, whether it was the West pilots as part of USAPA or the US Airways pilots as a part of APA, can negotiate or act like a union.

After reading the RLA, M-B statute, MOU, and Addington II DFR petitions Judge Silver accepted USAPA's argument opposing US Airways and the West pilots' request for a seat at the M-B arbitration table. Silver did so because she accepted the proposition that only the certified representative was entitled to participate in the process. In fact, she made it unequivocally clear that when USAPA is no longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."

Furthermore, Silver predicted USAPA would take an action and argue a different point if it served its interest whether or not the position is valid. Silver said, "(the court) has no doubt that as is USAPA's consistent practice USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.

Boy did Silver nail that comment and give USAPA a credibility problem with the NMB and federal court in D.C.

According to APA, USAPA's continuing effort to maintain its role in the McCaskill-Bond process even after APA becomes the certified representative of all pilots at the new American Airlines runs directly counter to Judge Silver's unambiguous directive. Given that APA will have the legal duty to represent all pilots and, potentially, liability for failing to do so, and especially in light of Judge Silver's express order, neither APA nor the company could possibly agree to let USAPA control the process after it ceased to be the collective bargaining representative.

And, then management compounded USAPAs problem when the company said, the language of both the (M- statute and (Allegheny-Mohawk LPP) Sections 3 and 13 are clear that the bargaining representative is the only participant on behalf of employees within the class or craft it represents. Thats federal law. Thats not Judge Silvers opinion, Managements opinion, or APAs opinion. Its the law.

According to APA, APA and the company have always understood that, at some point after a ruling by the NMB on the single-carrier proceeding, APA would assume representation for pilots at the two carriers and, as a consequence, take on a duty of fair representation to all of the pilots. In recognition of this legally mandated state of affairs, APA therefore agreed that, up until the time APA becomes the representative of the entire pilot group, USAPA would be the sole representative of the pilots at US Airways and handle the merger negotiations within its discretion. However, consistent with the law, once APA becomes the representative of all pilots, APA would of necessity displace USAPA and have authority as the certified collective bargaining representative over the process. USAPA has always insisted that it maintain institutional involvement and a degree of control over the process even after it ceases to be a lawful collective bargaining representative. That, however, cannot be the case under the law.

And, I believe AALand APA is dead-on accurate. Do I like this? No, of course not, but its the law and not an opinion.

According to management, on three separate occasions, US Airways noted the incongruity in USAPAs position, given that it is a certainty that, by the time the McCaskill-Bond arbitration begins, the APA will be certified to represent all post-merger pilots of the combined airlines and USAPA will no longer be the RLA collective-bargaining representative for any US Airways pilots.

Guess what? USAPA authorized a SCC process where APA will likely take over as our agent before the M-B process is fully complete, but USAPA wants to act like our union when this idea violates the RLA and labor law.

In my opinion, USAPA and their supporter's effort to blame Management and APA for this state of affairs is simply nonsense. USAPA did this to them self.

 

[snapthis]

About face by Usapawatch

Posted by TheEye at 3/5/2014 11:14 PM
Categories: uncategorized
“Aside from being an improper request for relief made in a response to US Airways’ motion, the purported reason for USAPA’s plea – that the four statements it does not like are mere “dicta” – is incorrect. The statements challenged by USAPA flow inexorably from this Court’s ruling, as urged by USAPA, that only certified collective bargaining representatives may participate in the McCaskill-Bond seniority-integration process, thereby precluding separate representation in that process for the West Pilots. Throughout this litigation, USAPA has repeatedly so argued to this Court. (See Doc. No. 95 at 1:16- 11:6; Doc. No. 108 at 1:5-8:6; Doc No. 211 at 11:2-15:3; Doc. No. 270 at 2:1-5:7, see especially at 4:13-17 (“Section 3 [of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs] expressly provides for agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and the representatives of the employees affected. The only parties to the collective bargaining process are the certified union and the carrier.”

US Airways Document 303 3/3/14



Let’s get this straight - USAPA argued passionately to Judge Silver that only the certified bargaining agent could have a seat at the table. She agreed with them and USAPA claimed victory because they interpreted her ruling to mean the west pilots could never have their own seat at the table. At the time they failed to see that only their seat at the table was eliminated by the federal court.

Now fast forward two months from the drunken parties celebrating Silver’s ruling and it seems USAPA has sobered slightly (very slightly). They now realize that the "dicta" requiring the immediate termination of their participation in the seniority integration process once APA assumes representation is federal law.

So what do they do?

“The Court has no doubt that-as is USAPA’s consistent practice-USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.”

-Judge Silver 1/10/14

USAPA, surprise surprise, is now arguing that they should retain jurisdiction over the seniority integration process following the representational changeover. How convenient.

The old proverb - there is no honor among thieves couldn’t be more apropos in this situation. USAPA will say and do anything to justify their end. They refuse to let honor, integrity, or decency stand in their way. With the end of their regime rapidly approaching, we suspect their behavior will only spiral deeper into the gutter.

TheEye was initially concerned that the APA would be seduced by USAPA’s early advances. Fortunately, that concern has been alleviated with the frivolous lawsuit filed against them by USAPA.

They have no friends, no realistic options, and a rapidly approaching expiration date.

Next up: Dues fraud.

 

[Phoenix]

There are East pilots who dare to challenge the men behind the curtain of USAPA. Chip, who writes the piece below, 

 
 
Referring to Chip as a source to bolster your argument.....?  Are you really that desperate?  Has it really gotten that bad for you?    

 

[snapthis]

Referring to Chip as a source to bolster your argument.....?  Are you really that desperate?  Has it really gotten that bad for you?  

Chip is an East pilot and so are you. Which one of you two is contumacious and tries to discredit valid arguments?

Not every East pilot agrees with the direction USAPA has traveled or is going now.

It appears you have Chip on your shoulder.

 

[eolesen]

Chip's tendency to be a company cheerleader back in the days of Bruce Lakefield doesn't necessarily make him wrong on the issue of USAPA...

 

[snapthis]

Chip's tendency to be a company cheerleader back in the days of Bruce Lakefield doesn't necessarily make him wrong on the issue of USAPA...

True....I think USAPA exposes itself to critics from all angles. I would like to disassociate myself from a group who has to make apologies for actions such as those below:

Here is the latest:

East Pilot denies AA pilots the Jumpseat

Charlotte Domicile Update
March 6, 2014
CLT Domicile Update Jumpseat

Fellow CLT Pilots,
We want to make you aware of an incident that occurred a few days ago regarding one of our CLT Captains denying jumpseat requests from three different American Airlines pilots. When he was contacted by your Reps to inquire about the incident he hung up the phone. When the Jumpseat Committee Vice Chair reminded him that many of our pilots use the jumpseat to commute to work his reply was that they should move to their domicile as he did. He then hung up the phone. This Captain's immature actions has put our jumpseat privileges with American Airlines in jeopardy. In addition, we are trying to have our Jumpseat policy implemented with the New American and this does not help our efforts.
We knew going into this merger that there would be disagreements regarding seniority. There is a process to handle this and it will work out in the end. There are three places that we should never let politics interfere: Safety, Training and the Jumpseat! Luckily, our Jumpseat Committee has a good relationship with the APA Jumpseat Committee and has conveyed that this rouge pilot does not reflect our feelings.
If you see an American Pilot please take the time to introduce yourself and apologize on behalf of the US Airways pilots for this senseless selfish display of power and let them know they are welcome on our flight decks.
Thank you,


Chairman Bob Frear (352)-639-0815 [email protected]
Vice Chairman Ron Nelson (330)-776-8315 [email protected]
Vice Chairman Courtney Borman (240)-463-9003 [email protected]


Or email all three CLT BPR representatives at: [email protected]

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not every East pilot agrees with the direction USAPA has traveled or is going now.

 

 
But virtually every east pilot (except maybe Traitor Zoot Jake) thinks Chip is a total wacko.

 

[snapthis]

But virtually every east pilot (except maybe Traitor Zoot Jake) thinks Chip is a total wacko.

If he doesn't tow the USAPA line, it makes him a wacko?

 

[snapthis]

unless of course the settlement does not agree with them then they sue!

The Usapian mindset is geared towards finding blame, delay and deflection which is rooted in the lack of integrity. They put their chips on the table with an arbitrator of their choice, felt like they were dealt a bad hand and walked.

They are incapable of accepting responsibility much like the story on the Vegas gambler who lost a half-million and wants his money back.
 
Put me on the jury, I won't buy the Usapian defense.
 
I'd find him guilty of cry-me-a-river. View attachment 10066

Gambler Sues Casino After Losing $500,000 While Playing Drunk
3/6/14
by Jenna Mullins
Whatever happens in Vegas...could lead to a lawsuit. That's the saying, right? Well, the city should change their motto it to that.
Mark Johnston, a 52-year-old businessman from Southern California, is suing the Vegas hotel Downtown Grand after he got drunk and lost $500,000. Yes, you read that right. Half a million bucks down the toilet because Mark had a bit too many daiquiris.
(Disclaimer: We don't actually know if he drank daiquiris that night.)
Mark claims that because he was so intoxicated, the casino should have not let him gamble and they definitely shouldn't have kept serving him. And anyone who has been to Vegas knows it's against Nevada law to allow inebriated folks to gamble and/or continue to give them free drinks at the tables, riiiiight?

"I feel like they picked my pockets," he told "I feellike a drunk guy walking down the street, and you reach in his pockets and grab all his money."
According to the lawsuit, Johnston arrived in Vegas during Super Bowl weekend, and after drinking in the limo from the airport and at dinner with friends, he blacked out. He alleges that the hotel kept giving him free drinks and allowed him to gamble away thousands and thousands of dollars. On Saturday, Feb. 1, he woke up to find out how much he had lost.

So, it's kind of like The Hangover if Bradley Cooper and Co. also lost half a million dollars and also they didn't make any more Hangover movies because the first one was great, and the rest were not.

But we digress.

So this guy says getting drunk and losing a crazy amount of money is a lawsuit. We say it's just another weekend in Vegas.

 

[traderjake]

 Traitor Zoot Jake

 

 

[nevergiveup]

True....I think USAPA exposes itself to critics from all angles. I would like to disassociate myself from a group who has to make apologies for actions such as those below:

Here is the latest:

East Pilot denies AA pilots the Jumpseat

Charlotte Domicile Update
March 6, 2014
CLT Domicile Update Jumpseat

Fellow CLT Pilots,
We want to make you aware of an incident that occurred a few days ago regarding one of our CLT Captains denying jumpseat requests from three different American Airlines pilots. When he was contacted by your Reps to inquire about the incident he hung up the phone. When the Jumpseat Committee Vice Chair reminded him that many of our pilots use the jumpseat to commute to work his reply was that they should move to their domicile as he did. He then hung up the phone. This Captain's immature actions has put our jumpseat privileges with American Airlines in jeopardy. In addition, we are trying to have our Jumpseat policy implemented with the New American and this does not help our efforts.
We knew going into this merger that there would be disagreements regarding seniority. There is a process to handle this and it will work out in the end. There are three places that we should never let politics interfere: Safety, Training and the Jumpseat! Luckily, our Jumpseat Committee has a good relationship with the APA Jumpseat Committee and has conveyed that this rouge pilot does not reflect our feelings.
If you see an American Pilot please take the time to introduce yourself and apologize on behalf of the US Airways pilots for this senseless selfish display of power and let them know they are welcome on our flight decks.
Thank you,


Chairman Bob Frear (352)-639-0815 [email protected]
Vice Chairman Ron Nelson (330)-776-8315 [email protected]
Vice Chairman Courtney Borman (240)-463-9003 [email protected]


Or email all three CLT BPR representatives at: [email protected]

Would fit right in with the west crowd.

 

[traderjake]

Would fit right in with the west crowd.

 
He was an East pilot.