USAPA/ALPA thread of the week 5/31-6/6

[nostradamus]

Piney and another poster said it best a few pages back...reread and focus your "eye" on that information. Get out of the mud it clouds you're vision so....

The quote below is from you describing the legal brief of USAPA

"Most of the actions described in the legal brief are silly and with the two groups involved I didn't read anything that was that surprising?"

Defecating and mailing it to USAPA was not surprising to you? A former america west alpa leader threatening an america west pilot with bodily harm is not surprising to you? Telephone threats and harassment strikes you as silly?

Tooty grin post click here

 

[767jetz]

FWIW Mercedes are much better than BMW.

Later,
Eye

a bit off subject but... NOT EVEN CLOSE.

 

[EastUS]

I would suggest a re-read of the Hemmenway letter. No where in it does he say that the company WILL do anything in regards to firing people.

It does say they will follow the required steps involved in the process and that they MAY elect to fire pilots after ALL other avenues have been explored. This process could take a long time.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

So..as we cut to the chase; What, exactly is it that will placate the west in even the slightest way now? = Suddenly abandoning ALL principles and adopting the insanity of Nic?...just to please your group? Good luck. What's your contingency plan otherwise? = Mail the east yet more envelopes filled with your "INTEGRITY"? I've long noted that I'd not want to see people fired due to momentary, emotional flare-ups, but: Given the utterly assinine, and consistent antics of some out there...It's sadly, very clear to me that at least a few should NOT be flying....period.

 

[700UW]

They just cant fire them for non-payment of dues, there is a specific procedure in every CBA which has to be followed the member in arrears is given three chances to pay up before the company can terminate them, it is a lengthy process with a timeline.

It is not instant termination if they are behind in dues.

Here is an example from the IAM CBA:

When an employee becomes delinquent or not "in
29 good standing" within the meaning of paragraph ©
30 2. above, he shall be subject to discharge and the
31 following procedures shall apply:
32
33 (a) The General Chairman of the Union shall
34 notify the employee in writing, Certified
35 mail, return receipt requested, and copy to
36 the Vice President of Customer Service of
37 the Company, that he is delinquent in the
38 payment of initiation fees, assessments or
39 membership dues as specified herein, and
40 accordingly is subject to discharge as an
41 employee of the Company. Such letter shall
42 also notify the employee that he must make
the required payment to the Financial
2 Secretary of the appropriate local lodge of
3 the Union within fifteen (15) days of the
4 date of mailing of the notice or be subject to
5 discharge.
6
7 (B) If, upon the expiration of the fifteen (15) day
8 period, the employee still remains
9 delinquent, the General Chairman of the
10 Union shall certify in writing to the Vice
11 President of Customer Service of the
12 Company, with copy to the employee, that
13 the employee has failed to make the required
14 payment within the fifteen (15) day grace
15 period provided in sub-paragraph (a) above,
16 and is therefore to be discharged. The Vice
17 President of Customer Service shall
18 promptly notify the employee involved that
19 he is to be discharged from the service of the
20 Company, and shall so discharge him for his
21 failure to pay or tender the initiation fees,
22 dues, and assessments as required under the
23 terms of this Article unless he files an
24 appeal.
25
26 © If the decision of the Vice President of
27 Customer Service is not satisfactory to the
28 employee or to the Union, it may be
29 appealed directly to the highest officer of the
30 Company designated to handle such appeals.
31 Such appeals shall be taken within ten (10)
32 calendar days of the date of the decision
33 appealed from, and if taken, shall operate to
34 stay action on the termination of em35
ployment until the decision on the appeal is
36 rendered. The Company shall promptly
37 notify the other party in writing of any such
38 appeal. The decision of such appeal shall be
39 rendered within ten (10) calendar days of the
40 date the appeal is taken and the employee
41 and the Union shall be promptly advised
42 thereof. If the decision on such appeal is that
100
1 the employee has not complied with the
2 terms of this Agreement, his employment
3 and seniority in that class or craft shall be
4 terminated within ten (10) calendar days of
5 the date of said decision, unless the
6 Company and the Union agree otherwise in
7 writing.
8
9 (d) Such decision on appeal shall be final and
10 binding unless within seven (7) days thereof
11 the Union requests in writing that the
12 decision be reviewed in such joint
13 conference by the Vice President of
14 Customer Service or by his designated
15 representative, and the General Chairman, or
16 by his designated representative. If such
17 request is made, the decision on appeal shall
18 be reviewed in such joint conference within
19 seven (7) days of the date such request is
20 received, and any decision rendered within
21 such seven (7) day period shall be final and
22 binding. If the decision on such review is
23 that the employee has not complied with the
24 terms of this Agreement, his employment
25 and seniority in that class or craft shall be
26 terminated within ten (10) calendar days of
27 the date of said decision, unless the
28 Company and the Union agree otherwise in
29 writing.
30
31 D. An employee discharged by the Company under the
32 provisions of paragraph © shall be deemed to have been
33 discharged for non-payment of Union dues, and notation so
34 made on his employment record.
35
36 E. Time limits specified in this Article may be extended in
37 individual cases by written agreement of the Company and
38 the Union.

 

[CactusFlyr]

I suggest that YOU reread it. I'll make it easy and quote the paragraph for you.

"However, in the event that a pilot becomes delinquent in paying dues or the service fees to USAPA, the following procedure is set out in the current labor contracts: (a) the union is to notify that pilot by certified mail, return receipt requested that he or she must remit the payment within fifteen (15) days or be discharged; (b ) if the pilot still owes monies at the end of the fifteen (15) day period, the union is to notify both the pilot and the Company that the pilot has not satisfied his or her obligation; (c ) the company must then take steps to discharge the pilot; (d) the pilot has five (5) days from the date of notification of his or her discharge to file a grievance with the Company's Vice President-Labor Relations. Unless there is some reason to believe that a pilot may not actually be in arrears, however, the Company can be forced to terminate the employment of a pilot who has failed to pay dues or the service charge." (emphasis added)

Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me.

Once again, you overrate the "power" of your union by-laws. USAPA says.......&^$%.

 

[ableoneable]

i have to chime in...

last saturday in mci, a westie captain strolled into the hotel lounge while we were waiting for the van to the airport. we greeted him. he said nothing. just grunted, or some other unintelligible nasal response.

it really didn't bother me: he was terribly overweight and utterly unkempt, a total embarrassment to the brand. the last laugh was on him; the hotel front desk agent just shot us a furtive smile of acknowledgment.

westies...regional mentality; global expectations...

If it happened it is regrettable. I have seen Easties exhibit the same type of behavior. That is not an excuse, I think it is childish regardless of which side is the perpetrator.

What I have seen is jumpseat behavior that while not quite unprofessional is discourteous.

I commute and I always list for the jumpseat. In the event I am given a seat assignment instead of the actual jumpseat I always make it a point to visit the flightdeck, introduce myself, explain that I am a jumper with a seat in back and most importantly I ask for a ride.

(Whenever possible I also seek out the crew to thank them for the lift at the end of the flight.)

The last time I did this it was east metal and the captain/fo were both professional and courteous.


However, I have noticed that this type of behavior is becoming the exception instead of the rule.

Five times in the last two months I have had east pilots jump in the cabin. None of them visited the flightdeck to say hello. One captain who sat in a forward aisle seat pointedly avoided eye contact with me when I was standing in the forward galley shortly after boarding.

With your little moniker: "westies...regional mentality; global expectations..." I would venture to guess for all of your big webboard talk you are one of those who, if forced to ride west metal, make every effort to avoid the "regional" westie who is up front.

You are lobbing some pretty big rocks from inside your glass house my friend.

 

[EastUS]

Once again, you overrate the "power" of your union by-laws. USAPA says.......&^$%.

1) There's an existent Union, sanctioned by the NMB, which legally, if not to your liking, represents all USAirways pilots. True or False?
2) An ongoing effort at concerted sabotage of said, legally elected Union exists out west. True or False?
3) Within said sabotage attempts, is an intentional refusal to pay dues of any kind. True or False?
4) Your "position" and group behavior is both "reasonable", and completely unassailable within any legal proceedings. True or False?
5) Hopeless Idiots making national news by hanging child's dolls from nooses, within flight decks, is a proud tribute to all professional pilots everywhere. True or False?
6) Management is naturally, totally thrilled with the behavior of the west extremists. True or False?
7) Given that employee/staffing reductions are likely imminent: Every single west pilot's the most highly qualified, and utterly irreplaceable employee/person ever to take flight. True or False?
8) You do the math.......

 

[EastUS]

If it happened it is regrettable. That is not an excuse, I think it is childish regardless of which side is the perpetrator.

We have a full accord there. Unprofessional behavior from ANY supposedly "Professional Aviator" is beneath contempt, and fully should be ..for ALL of us....PERIOD!.

"I have seen Easties exhibit the same type of behavior." There's little point in my tossing further stones...but I must note that there exists no "NO Westies on the jumpseat!/Safety of Flight!" BS out here. If ANY pilot is abused/denied on ANY jumpseat...he/she should make the details fully known to those who can act on the information asap. In general? = A decent modicum of basic civility within the working enviornment, costs none of us anything..and should be the norm for all.

 

[EastUS]

Posting the reply was directed to has been deleted.....appropriately.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Once again, you overrate the "power" of your union by-laws. USAPA says.......&^$%.

That is not a quote from the union by-laws. It is a quote the letter sent to USAPA by Vice President-Labor Relations Hemenway. Do you question his "power" to arrange for your termination?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Re LGA Fleet Service's post above:

While I agree somewhat with the sentiment you are trying to convey, the graphic is in very poor taste and exploitive of human beings that you perceive as "different" in a demeaning way. Shame on you. And the obscenity in the note at the bottom of the pic should earn you a little vacation, IMHO.

(By the time I posted this, evidently the moderators agreed and now it's gone. As it should be.)

 

[foreright]

westies...regional mentality; global expectations... that pretty much sums it up

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

westies...regional mentality; global expectations... that pretty much sums it up

How about this one: "The GLOBAL Carrier of Choice"

 

[foreright]

How about this one: "The GLOBAL Carrier of Choice"

"the junior high school carrier of choice"

 

[checksix]

Merger Committee Update

(01June2008)

Fellow pilot,

The Merger Committee has been working the last two weeks on several issues. The first item we have been addressing is interviewing prospective Merger Counsel. We have to-date reviewed 8 different law firms and are confident that we will be in a position to bring several well qualified candidates for final consideration to the BPR at the June 10 Board meeting. Additionally, the committee has received updated employment data from the Company, current thru May 08, for both US Airways East and the former America West pilot groups. We are now checking it for accuracy in preparation for building the list that will be submitted to the Company. We will be verifying the accuracy of the data for all of the pilots from both lists that have been added since the last certified lists were created (January 07).

Finally we have begun modeling of several concepts for Conditions and Restrictions to be applied to our date of hire list in order to preserve the pre-merged career expectations of both the US Airways and America West pilot groups. It is our goal to have a finished seniority list that adequately provides for the fair and equitable merging of our pre-merger seniority lists to present to the Company when face-to-face negotiations resume in June.


Randy Mowrey
Chairman
Merger Committee