AWA Alpa thread 11/2-11-8

[Phoenix]

At least he didn't say "Blah Blah Blah next". Or what the missing Junebug used to say "Pinhead"

BTW. I know he's lurking, wonder why he quit posting?

Junebug was perhaps smart enought to know his posts ended up on the bathroom wall over the urinal for comic reading that furthered the cause of those he has labled his enemy.

 

[ableoneable]

You are responding to a poster who has 10 times the character and intelligence you or you lineage could only hope to attain in this century. I do not know this poster, just an observation of previous history of posts on this forum.

Coming from you this is quite the compliment.

I see you too are incapable of dealing in logic, instead you say, "He is smarter than you and has greater character than you because he fanatacally agrees with my position."

People like you are the reasons that lotteries and religions are successful. Very unlikely payoffs promised against insane odds.

By the way when trying to insult someone's intellegence try to write sentences that keep the same tense from beginning to end. Loser.

 

[nostradamus]

People like you are the reasons that lotteries and religion are successful. Incredable payoffs promised against insane odds.

Speaking of the Nicolau award.....

 

[EastUS]

People like you are the reasons that lotteries and religion are successful. Incredable payoffs promised against insane odds.

Hmm..By that: Are you implying that nos had his hand in the making of the Nic "award"? :blink:

Oops..I was too slow on that one. The very first thing that did come to mind via that choice phrase was, indeed Nic...most especially by way of the "incredible payoffs promised".

PS: We can argue over Nic untill hell opens it's third or fourth ski resort.... The problem is established, and must be addressed. IMHO: The majority of those involved simply will have nothing to do with implementing Nic by any voting actions needed for contractual ratification...as if any "contract" is even in the works. That's not even considering a likely change in bargaining agencies.

 

[ableoneable]

Speaking of the Nicolau award.....

On this I don't disagree. I have no idea how this is going to play out. As I have said in the past the possiblilty of negotiating fences into a new contract was probably viable shortly after the conclusion of the arbitration process.

As much as you insist that the east will not vote for a contract that encompasses the Nicolau list I predict that the west pilot group will no longer entertain a yes vote for any contract that contains fences or modifications.

I believe the only way that a contract could come to pass is if the east were placed in reicievership. Many believe that there were enough east pilots who would have voted yes in spite of the Nic award.

I agree that recievership is now extremly unlikely. USA320 stated many times that the east would be happy to live under LOA93 for the rest of their careers. You may now get the chance to prove him correct.

It looks like we will operate separately for a while.

The west MEC is now pretty pissed off. When the company starts to add widebodies the west will probably offer to fly them for $10/hr less than the east widebody rates. Hell they might even offer to fly them at our current narrowbody rates.

Nothing is likely to happen for a couple of years. Until we see who starts to fly the new routes and equipment.

 

[nostradamus]

The west MEC is now pretty pissed off. When the company starts to add widebodies the west will probably offer to fly them for $10/hr less than the east widebody rates. Hell they might even offer to fly them at our current narrowbody rates.

I know of some international flying the West wanted a million dollars to do.

 

[EastUS]

As much as you insist that the east will not vote for a contract that encompasses the Nicolau list I predict that the west pilot group will no longer entertain a yes vote for any contract that contains fences or modifications.

Looks like it's time to count, and actually, finally, honestly acknowledge the respective disparity in pilot numbers..west vs east. If a very high percentage of east folks wanted a given contract scenario...the entire west list could vote no to zero avail.

 

[ableoneable]

I know of some international flying the West wanted a million dollars to do.

The company now has us fighting each other. Perfect situation for them. The race to the bottom continues.

Who has the lower opinion of Prater, the east or the west?

 

[ableoneable]

Looks like it's time to count, and actually, finally, honestly acknowledge the respective disparity in pilot numbers..west vs east. If a very high percentage of east folks wanted a given contract scenario...the entire west list could vote no to zero avail. The reverse is obviously also true.

Not true.

The transition agreement spells this out explicitly.

Each pilot group must ratify independently. We each have veto power over the other regardless of the size of our respective pilot groups.

 

[nostradamus]

The company now has us fighting each other. Perfect situation for them. The race to the bottom continues.

Lets just say we are morphing ourselves back to historical America West pilot pay. The circle of life.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nothing is likely to happen for a couple of years. Until we see who starts to fly the new routes and equipment.

Which actually starts arriving next year - the new A321's........

It'll be interesting, given that some still seem to equate East's "lower cost contract" with lower pilot costs. Now that MIT has put their "Airline Data Project" website together, which gives cockpit crew cost per block hour for the various airlines and airplane sizes, anyone can calculate which side costs less per block hour for equivalent airplanes after factoring in the mix of aircraft sizes. Those pinning all their hopes of getting the flying from new airplanes on LOA 93 might just be in for a surprise.....

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

The east seniority issue has been around since the UAL merger attempt in 2001. Only this time around the 20+ year F/O's seniority is so degraded the merger will have a better chance. It also started again with the DAL merger almost immediately after announcement. Then you have the award in late spring. Coincidence?

Don't dance around your point. Do you have a specific allegation and any evidence to support it? We all know the influence of the ALPA EC is dominated by the richest carriers. Oh boy, did the TWA guys learn this back in '01. But to imply that Nicolau is somehow part of some conspiracy is quite overreaching.

 

[exB717Flyer]

It is an update from an MEC member who describes the election of three MEC members to a committee that will be meeting on the 9th with the AWA MEC to figure out how to complete the merger. I did not defend the meeting as something sanctioned under ALPO merger policy. Do you?

ALPA Merger Policy has been fulfilled. A new seniority list is awaiting a joint contract to be implemented. These talks are about coaxing y'all back to the negotiating table as obligated.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Don't dance around your point. Do you have a specific allegation and any evidence to support it? We all know the influence of the ALPA EC is dominated by the richest carriers. Oh boy, did the TWA guys learn this back in '01. But to imply that Nicolau is somehow part of some conspiracy is quite overreaching.

I'm just stating my opinion and thoughts. No more, no less. But to me it seems strange the way the chain of events past and present are coming together.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Which actually starts arriving next year - the new A321's........

It'll be interesting, given that some still seem to equate East's "lower cost contract" with lower pilot costs. Now that MIT has put their "Airline Data Project" website together, which gives cockpit crew cost per block hour for the various airlines and airplane sizes, anyone can calculate which side costs less per block hour for equivalent airplanes after factoring in the mix of aircraft sizes. Those pinning all their hopes of getting the flying from new airplanes on LOA 93 might just be in for a surprise.....

Jim

Hey Jim, just because its MIT doesn't necessarily mean the numbers work correctly. I went over and looked at some of the data. Here is what they said:

"Historically, benchmarking productivity between airlines has been limited to comparing each airline to a select group of carriers that often are arbitrarily chosen to be the comparator group (e.g., “low-costâ€￾ airlines). The ADP makes a concerted effort to provide the data and analysis to make meaningful comparisons between companies as well as sectors of the industry and to address a lack of consistent metrics.

To align with unit costs, we assess ASMs (output) per employee (input) for all employees and flight employees. We then take that analysis a step further and assess the number of ASMs produced per dollar of labor compensation.

Calculating the output per employee is only one part of the equation. It is equally important to understand the cost of that output. Often the two produce very different results.

We did not exhaust all of the measurements that could be used to gauge productivity. Instead, metrics within the data-set allow users to make adjustments for seat density and stage-length in addition to the analysis we provide for the 15 carriers included in the industry average. For example, an adjustment for seat density is relevant when analyzing the number of ground employees an airline employs per aircraft.

This section provides each carrier’s data, allowing users to make many other comparisons in addition to those included here."

Industry dynamics such as fluctating fuel costs, dollar exchange rates and I am sure many other factors you can think of probably play an important role not figured in here. But it is a start, however. Thanks for the heads up.