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USAPA/ALPA US Pilot Labor Thread 5/10-5/17

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Check your facts. Basically it points out that recent losses are driven solely by fuel and are not necessarily an indication of how well a company is operating. .........Our industry does not exist in a vacuum. The larger the airline, the more of an obstacle fuel becomes. So smaller airlines seem to have an advantage. ........ This is an idea that the BOD at UA is starting to slowly come around to.

Here's another look at that pig, without the perfume...........

Dear UAL BOD

We are writing to you as a group of voting shareholders who have waited long enough to receive a return on our investment in UAL, Inc. More than five years after entering bankruptcy, UAL still has the highest non-labor cost per available seat mile (CASM) amongst the legacy hub and spoke carriers, despite having a competitive fuel CASM. More than five years after entering bankruptcy, UAL’s revenue per available seat mile (RASM) is still far inferior to that of its closest competitor, AMR, despite having lower seating density. More than five years after entering bankruptcy, employee morale is at its lowest level in years and is reflected in customer service surveys. More than five years after entering bankruptcy, UAL’s operational statistics are marginal at best and its operating margin is the lowest in the industry. More than five years after entering one of the longest bankruptcies in U.S. corporate history, United still has a considerably higher debt to asset ratio compared to DAL, another reorganized airline. UAUA shareholders demand a return on our invested capital and we will wait no longer.
 
FYI:

USAPA Update For Tuesday, May 13th, 2008

BPR Meeting Update for Tuesday, May 13, 2008
Professional Negotiator Appointed
Staffing of the Negotiating Committee
Staffing of Merger Committee

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The Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR) met today in CLT for day one of a scheduled three day BPR meeting. The meeting is taking place at the Marriott Charlotte Executive Park, 5700 Westpark Drive, Charlotte, NC. For free transportation from the airport call 704-527-9650. The meeting will convene tomorrow at 9:00am and will adjourn at 5:00pm or at the close of business. All USAPA members are invited to attend.

The following is a summary of today’s events which started with a brief update from the officers to the BPR:

President Steve Bradford discussed the resumes that have been received for the various committee positions followed by Vice President Mike Cleary’s brief discussion on the agenda items for the meeting, along with a short discussion of candidates for the open committee positions.

Secretary/Treasurer Mark King reported that the first dues payment from the Company is expected in the middle of May and that lines of credit have now been secured solidifying the financial position of your union. All pilots will receive invoices updating their accounts, even if enrolled in dues check off. For those pilots not enrolled in dues check off, USAPA will begin dues billing. Since dues check off is not retroactive to date of certification, all pilots utilizing dues check off can anticipate a balance due on their first invoice. With the exception of checks that say "donation" on them, USAPA will hold on to all checks dated after 17 April and will eventually apply them to dues. Anyone that wrote a check after that date, and does not want it cashed should contact Secretary/Treasurer Mark King at mking@USAirlinePilots.org.

Executive Vice President Gary Bauhan briefed the BPR on new IT infrastructure coming in the days ahead which will give USAPA new and enhanced capabilities. He also briefed the BPR on ineffective attempts by non supporters of USAPA to overload USAPA resources. At this point Agenda item 08-22 Resolution was passed by the Board, authorizing legal action as necessary to protect the Association’s representational rights and obligations.

The Board then addressed the increasingly hostile workplace and discussed the need to involve Professional Standards in a desire to handle issues internally if at all possible.

It was also brought forward by the BPR that the Officers are seeking to improve internal communications amongst the Officers, the BPR and committee structure.

Regarding membership to USAPA, a motion was passed wherein the BPR approved for membership all individuals listed in the Membership Report that was distributed to the BPR by the Secretary Treasurer on May 11, 2008.

During today’s meeting, Negotiating Advisory Committee Consultant Doug Mowery briefed the BPR on JNC talks which ended August 2007 and negotiations in general. Also the Board interviewed a number of Negotiating Advisory and Merger Committee candidates.

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Attorney Scott Petersen, from the Law Firm of Seham, Seham, Meltz and Petersen, was appointed USAPA’s Professional Negotiator. Mr. Petersen is a former U.S. Air force Pilot who served as In-house and General Counsel for independent pilot associations at two of the major domestic airlines for many years. Mr. Petersen is a founding member of the National Transportation Safety Board Bar Association (“NTSB-BAâ€), and has extensive experience in labor/management relations, federal aviation law, NLRB hearings, employment discrimination law, internal union affairs, DOT regulatory issues and ERISA/pension matters. Mr. Petersen specializes in working with independent organizations such as USAPA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Board appointed First Officer Paul DiOrio Chairman of the Negotiating Advisory Committee. First Officer DiOrio is a graduate of the New England School of Law and is a member of the Bar in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. His union work includes being an elected pilot representative and extensive grievance committee work representing pilots to management and throughout the arbitration process.

The Board will be considering other candidates for positions on the Negotiating Advisory Committee.

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The Board partially manned the Merger Committee by appointing Captain Randy Mowery as Chairman, and First Officer Kevin Barry as a Merger Committee Member.

Captain Randy Mowery’s experience in merger committee work includes responsibility for producing a merged seniority list during the US Airways/United Airlines corporate integration in the late 1990’s. He was also involved in the US Airways/Trump Shuttle seniority arbitration.

First Officer Kevin Barry has been involved in merger committee work since 1993 with both the Trump Shuttle and US Airways.

The Board will be considering other candidates for positions on the Merger Committee.

To reiterate, the meeting will reconvene tomorrow at 9:00am and will adjourn at 5:00pm or at the close of business. All USAPA members are invited to attend.
 
How did Seeham's firm do for NW AMTs with AMFA and NW's FAs with the PFAA?

Opps, not to well!!!!!
 
How did Seeham's firm do for NW AMTs with AMFA and NW's FAs with the PFAA?

Opps, not to well!!!!!


Shhhh! We dont want to scare them... They are about to walk off the edge all by themselves!

BTW didn't the UCRAPA supporters claim there would be no previous ALPA folk put into positions of leadership or counsel? How does A. Gentile fit in to that? Or Mowery for that matter...?
 
Shhhh! We dont want to scare them...

"As if you could".."yo Momma"/etc..ad nauseum.....sigh..two full years of AWA"Nyaah, Nyaahs" now...don't you get, even sometimes...just tired of such adolescant BS?..and actually want to finally "join the party" via waking up?..Thnking at all?/etc?
 
And what about Seeham at ACA when he lost a major status qou case that changed the way the RLA is enforced for newly organized groups?

And what about him representing EL AL and Alitalia against unions?

Since his cash cow AMFA is on the ropes McCormick and him need a new source of cash!!!
 
Shhhh! We dont want to scare them... They are about to walk off the edge all by themselves!

BTW didn't the UCRAPA supporters claim there would be no previous ALPA folk put into positions of leadership or counsel? How does A. Gentile fit in to that? Or Mowery for that matter...?

The irony of the union leaders in the picture below is that they did not insist on crew meals for 14 hour on duty crew members. They look well fed. Maybe now they are in the real world, it will cure their obvious obesity disease.

Previous america west and us airways union leaders.
 
The irony of the union leaders in the picture below is that they did not insist on crew meals for 14 hour on duty crew members. They look well fed. Maybe now they are in the real world, it will cure their obvious obesity disease.

Previous america west and us airways union leaders.

Sheesh Nos.."there you go again" sir..first it'll be just food..next you'll be hounding off about shelter, security and a decent way of life for line pilots!! Where/When will this ever end!!?? :lol:
 
"As if you could".."yo Momma"/etc..ad nauseum.....sigh..two full years of "Nyaah, Nyaahs"...don't you get, even sometimes...just tired of such adolescant BS?..and actually want to finally "join the party" via waking up?..Thnking at all?/etc?

Maybe I should have said "startled." But whatever gets under your skin is fine with me... And don't give me your selfrighteous BS about how you dont let these things get to you... Look at your post count! You are melting down the keyboard friend... :up:
 
Maybe I should have said "startled." But whatever gets under your skin is fine with me... And don't give me your selfrighteous BS about how you dont let these things get to you... Look at your post count! You are melting down the keyboard friend... :up:

Typing's no great "stress"..Heck...no one's even shooting anything at me in here. This may seem an incredible reach for you to ever believe..but; This doesn't get under my skin. I've my firm beliefs as to how things "should" work..and those don't concern me as to needing your agreement, nor do I consider myself as being the center of all Creation, with ANY narciicisstic/mommy's- boy's need for ANY aritficial "seniority", so?..I sleep well. I'll properly leave any/all internal tremblings as to "What am I really worth?...Did the arbitrator truly bless me enough?/etc" to your sort...I'll always prefer the "arbitration" of my shaving mirror myself 😉 I can honestly state that, on my worst and most vile days...I've NEVER dreamed myself to be so utterly "special", so as to be worthy of usurping 10, 15, 20+ years of ANY other man's life's work...so again...I sleep well....and not merely "relatively" well 😉 Of course..it must be noted that pinning on Wings was no small thing for me. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were some marginally "qualified"/self-obsessed/narcissistic little twit that never really "flew", doesn't even know HOW to,..much less fought, and didn't have to EVER do diddly squat except buy his license, without the tiniest quality control issues, much less wash-outs...involved at any level. Sigh..I'm so sorry..YOU..truly should not only take my ancient 24+K hours outta' at least my seat..(not any issue..even under St Nic) .but...also.... subsume ALL of my younger comrades..with merely 3-6 times your training and experience...Nic was "right" 😉

Don't get me wrong here. I've seen "MANY" airshows where the Blues and the T-Birds were but minor league, warm ups for "Doug's Delights..The Awesome Aviators of America West!!!" 😉

Seriously? = You've got some/a few at least, actual pilots out there...but few of them would ID themselves via some bike/kiddie-toy though 😉Said few I'm sure, have some F18/16/15 hours or some reasons for attitude at least, and are the like to properly take issue with me on, tell me to go "f--k" myself/"Fight's ON!"/etc..but somehow?...a "Triumph1050" just isn't a heavy impression...for any alleged "Aviator"...sorry.....

Regardless..here we all are in the wonderful world of commercial airline life, and..we've got to "get along" at some level. Any/all undue arrogance on my part I apologize for. Your sort however, seems to feel fully "entitled" to utterly unbridled arrogance..without feeling the slightest need in life for ANY "Backup" for the same...ever...well..other than "But!!..St Nic said!! that you OWE us!!??" Small wonder that much of the Alpa rantings,insults/etc, from the west seemed to have come from nothing more than an hysterical matriarchy.....from your PHX Raodshow "moderator"..to all concerned it seems.....Just an observation.
 
Maybe I should have said "startled." But whatever gets under your skin is fine with me... And don't give me your selfrighteous BS about how you dont let these things get to you... Look at your post count! You are melting down the keyboard friend... :up:

ALPA AWA MEC Thread for 8/10-8/17
Tiger 1050
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Posted on: Aug 12 2007, 05:46 AM


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Don't you get it? We are in fact trying to get you guys to try this decert thing. We want to call your bluff.

If you take the time to read through the posts coming from the east you'll find mostly unbridled emotion tainted with ignorance. You kids out east had better start educating yourselves otherwise you will be settting yourselves up for additional disappoinment...

And sometimes the drivel that leaks from your mouth is just too much to respond to. This may be the lull you speak of.


Good day little children...
 
And what about him representing EL AL and Alitalia against unions?

Much as I hesitate to challenge a world renowned expert on legal ethics, I believe this is known as representing the client who has retained the firm. Not normally considered a legal faux pas among actual attorneys, but we can only hope that your internet postings will begin to educate that lowly profession.

If one wishes to find a truly ethically challenged entity, may I recommend the website eclatconsulting.com. Eclat is the creation of Mr. Randolph Babbitt, former President of the glorious Air Line Pilots Association. Read up on the services offered by that august body. These services could collectively be described as advise for union busters. Read up as well on the client list of that fine group, which includes not only most major airlines but also the nations preeminent anti-labor law firm, Ford and Harrison. Please note that the leaders of Alpa have never publicly uttered a peep about the sleazy "retirement" career of Mr. Babbitt. On the contrary, in Herndon, Mr. Babbitt is still the Man.

If you can find another example of the leader of a national union retiring to open an anti-union consulting shop, please let us know. I would wager a guess that if such occurred at a real live "union" such as the Longshoremen, it would be a very short lived retirement. :up:

And you would wish USAPA members to disavow Mr. Lee Seham for what reason again?


Since his cash cow AMFA is on the ropes McCormick and him need a new source of cash!!!

Oh yes, Mr. Lee Seham of Chappaqua, NY, is in desperate need of a new source of cash. I was unable to access his tax records myself, so I appreciate your diligent research. At first light I shall be on the phone to the struggling Amherst and NYU Law grad to suggest that a position at the Twinkie factory might be just what the doctor ordered to stabilize that cash crunch.
 
Seeham's biggest client was AMFA, him and McCormick failed with AMFA at NW and just got voted out at UA, losing their biggest source of revenue.

A lawyer still has the right to refuse a client.

Sorry dont make twinkies, but hey try again at a lame attempt at an insult.

And I have sat across the negotiations table from ECLAT, I know what they are all about.

And according to their web page, he is not listed as a founding partner of ECLAT while other members are.
 
Seeham's biggest client was AMFA, him and McCormick failed with AMFA at NW and just got voted out at UA, losing their biggest source of revenue.
You have been repeatedly stating that there is something inappropriate about the Seham firm's relationships with El Al and Alitalia, and his subsequent retention by USAPA. An absurd and ignorant opinion from someone with the same breath of knowledge on legal ethics as he has on Cuban overflight operations.

Next came the unsupported and idiotic statement that Seham and McCormick accepted USAPA as a client because they "need a new source of cash." More ignorance on display, as the firm is a thriving one. Like any successful law practice, Mr. Seham's has clients come and go on a regular basis. You have absolutely no information as to their "sources of revenue."


A lawyer still has the right to refuse a client.
Thanks for that gem. May I ask if the acceptance/refusal of new clients should be based on the standards set by the New York State Bar or the expert opinions expressed on US Aviation.com?


Sorry dont make twinkies, but hey try again at a lame attempt at an insult.
Are you saying I am mistaken? I gleaned this bit of info from a post on US Aviation.com, which as we all know is a more respected source of information, opinion, and ethical guidance than such entities, for example, as the New York State Bar.


And I have sat across the negotiations table from ECLAT, I know what they are all about.
Then perhaps you should get a clue and understand why the US Airways pilots have seen through the inside-the-beltway Alpa sleaze machine and elected to go in a new direction. With, I might add, the able, appropriate, and ethical assistance of Mr. Lee Seham.


And according to their web page, he is not listed as a founding partner of ECLAT while other members are.
There is no "list" of founding partners. You saw the phrase "founding partner" in Mr. Stalanker's bio, and no one else's. It was not a phrase that was included in Mr. Babbitt's bio, but no matter, he was a founding partner. End of story.
 
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