Vertical Fire Article

[firehawk]

Ahhh don't be going there, IceFloe, Others wise we all should just convert to a fixedwing if it was law that we had to stay within the guide lines of the height velocity chart, I dont think many of us would have jobs. External loads for helicopters would be something that nobody could ever do.

 

[Skids Up]

Twitch, your comment that follows:

"One other thing that enters into the mix was working some fires with a long line, I spent a surprising amount of time on the dials especially after the drop and in the turn until clear of the smoke, on some fires. I would far sooner do that with a super puma than an astar. It would have been far easier to stay in ground contact on a short line than high above on the wrong end of a kite,"

If you need the "dials" to turn and clear the smoke, are you still legal? The thought of someone coming out of the smoke with his longline and maybe no knowing where the next machine is, is, well, kind of scary!

I've enjoyed the longline debate, and would agree there is no "right" answer. Use the equipment, and driver to the best of thier ability, and get the job done.

Afew short years ago I showed up on an Alberta fire (1st year in the mediums) and after crews moves was told to "get the bucket and go to work." The were a couple or three other mediums bucketing, some long some short. With very little time in the 205 and with NO long line time at all, (though lots in the jetbox) I asked what his preference was, long line or belly hook.

His answere was: "Long line, as I think it's probably safer."

My reply was: "Obviously then, you've never seen me longline!"

But we did it. slow and steady, got the job done, and learned some things in a easy enviornment. Now I prefer it on a long line, for many reasons, but can still do it on a short hook as well.

The helicopter is an amazing toll, that allows us to do so many things, (and probably some we shouldn't). so lets learn to use all of it's capabilities.

 

[cyclic monkey]

Icefloe, good comment, it's about time someone mentioned the dreaded, deadly "curve".

To avoid it, I always use a long-line over 500' in length.

To lift-off without entering the shaded area, I accelerate (with line attached) really quickly to 60 knots, then pull-back hard on the cyclic to bring me into a hover above the curve !!!

You have to be damn good to do this maneuvre, (and to earn a name like mine).
I also recommend using a Kevlar line, as 500 feet of steel cable gets to be pretty heavy under my R22 !!!

Seasonal Wishes.

 

[Heli]

Horses for courses, but I guess the long line/belly hook debate will go on forever (unless you've got a belly tank 🙄 ).

After [/I]many years of hooking the Bambi to the belly hook (on my BK117) I worked up to about a 100ft line. The biggest improvement? The darned helicopter actually performs better, requiring less power to lift the same weight out of the same hole 😉 Now quite why that should be will take up the rest of my smoko, but apart from not having to fiddle fart around in amongst the trees, I quite like the idea of not pulling so much Tq to achieve the same result.

Anyone noticed similar performance gains from any other helicopter types, or is this a BK anomaly ?

 

[Skids Up]

Quote:

"After [/I]many years of hooking the Bambi to the belly hook (on my BK117) I worked up to about a 100ft line. The biggest improvement? The darned helicopter actually performs better, requiring less power to lift the same weight out of the same hole Now quite why that should be will take up the rest of my smoko, but apart from not having to fiddle fart around in amongst the trees, I quite like the idea of not pulling so much Tq to achieve the same result.

Anyone noticed similar performance gains from any other helicopter types, or is this a BK anomaly ?"

This summer with the 204, after spend the whole time with the long line, I was forced to go a belly hook because of the dreaded f word (foam) as we didn't have it rigged for the LL. The hole we were working out of was not very big, 2-3 rotor dia, but with the belly hook, I couldn't get out of it. Finally had enough parts to rig to the LL and could once again work the hole.

Probably because we were back up in the bit f wind there was, but probably some of the reason was with the small hole and so much disturbed air in it.

So much easier...