- Aug 8, 2004
- 168
- 50
VOTE NO !
- Thread starter jetmechjer
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lbo2 sux
Someone pointed out to me that one of the things on the term sheet to be imposed is that all crew chiefs will be removed and new ones appointed by management. I told yes voters in my shop that is an incentive to vote no. That way they can get rid of me and get a new crew chief. Might have convinced a few of them. haha
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,120
That's BS. The term sheet of 3/22 says that the CC will laid off at the point with no bumping lower CCs at other stations. CC's can be demoted for cause however in the 3/22 term sheet. Management still has to go through PPC and the decision can be grieved.
Maybe you should actually read what it says, not what you want it to say to justify your bogus position.
enough already
Veteran
- Jan 8, 2003
- 659
- 251
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,767
Fellow APA Pilots,
We have less than a week before the final tabulation results of American Airlines Last Best Final Offer is revealed. I would be terribly remiss if I did NOT disclose to the membership a dialog session which transpired in Marina Del Rey, CA. The locale was the Warehouse, a restaurant, and I was accompanied by 15 fellow pilots of the LAX domicile, ranging from line pilots, check airmen, Flight Department Pilots who all dined with Captain John Hale and Senior VP of Operations, Mr. Jim Ream.
The meeting occurred on the eve of July 26th. Captain Hale was the financial host of the get together which was arranged specifically to give both Captain Hale and Mr. Ream a cross stratification from the most Junior in our base ranks to the most Senior, from managerial types to union advocates, for the sole purpose of edifying where the rank and file actually stand on this LBFO.
Once dinner was concluded, the small talk ceased as we moved to a more private setting in the restaurant where Captain Hale delivered some opening remarks then handed off the dialog to Mr. Ream who gave us a Macro Economic overview of American Airlines and the goals and Objectives he and others are trying to achieve.
After an opening question by one of our former negotiators was posed regarding the culture of distrust and apparent over reach of this TA, I followed on to ask Mr. Ream a multi faceted question relevant to his Macro vision, which is the heart of my post today.
I stated to Mr. Ream, since it is the public posture of APA for regime change with US AIR being the desired player, that the equity ploy (including F/As & mechanics) would still leave organized labor 15% short of a blocking vote. I felt the POR blocking strategy was indeed a long shot and would very possibly still find us working under a very draconian TA for the next 10 years.
I further stated, I feel American would pursue purchasing JetBlue. Therefore, the existing TA as it stands, leaves the American Airline pilot exposed.
In short, I explained that I felt manipulated and used by BOTH sides and he would not achieve labor peace with the pilots when the depth of deception was revealed. He appeared surprised by how much push back he was sensing from the pilots for he had been led to believe that this TA was a good deal for the pilots inside of bankruptcy.
My question was could He alter the TA before the vote was tabulated, if we could propose a viable argument for why such amendment was necessary.
Mr. Ream responded:
(Not exact quotes, but accurate content, vetted by three other pilots present.)
1) It is the desire of AAL to purchase JetBlue. This would be completed through a complex deal including debt, private equity and preferential shares. He explained that we are far along the road to negotiating this deal and the critical part is HAVING Contracts in place with LABOR. He further acknowledged that the same people that would be loaning us the money for Americans desired POR were consolidating Americans debt. By doing this, they are buying debt at a discounted rate, gaining power on the UCC and have little exposure for they know the financing is viable to emerge from BK.
2) IF the TA were to be voted down by a close margin, they would immediately RE-negotiate to gain a speedy solution with labor. Time being the critical factor to American Airlines due to the in place financing. He stated, the labor stress just ADDS to the Cost of Financing.
3) IF the TA passes, they have done their job for the creditors and have achieved the best deal possible for the debtors.
4) He indicated that changing the TA at this late stage was problematic. The money factor being locked and reported to the UCC. However, he wanted to hear what the pilots felt were the problem areas of the TA.
Dinner was concluded and some very valuable information was exchanged between all parties in attendance. The remainder of the eve was spent discussing the TA and how it affects the pilots. Mr. Ream asked those in attendance to send him 5 bullet points they would want to see in TA #2.
Friday / 27 July:
I was informed that a pilot who was present, had written a debrief and forwarded it to Negotiating Chairman Neil Roghair as well as both LAX Base Representatives.
The remainder of my day was spent sending the attendees 5 Bullet points to Captain Hale and Captain Smith.
Saturday / 28 July:
Captain Hale informed me he was going to be addressing MR. Horton, Ms. Denise Lynn (HR) and would be informing them of the pilots view of this TA from our dialog session.
I assured Captain Hale I would not disclose nor campaign the content of the Warehouse Revelations for five days to allow him to possibly get an internal solution to the very defective TA.
In Conclusion,
True to my word, I promised not to disclose nor discuss the events of 26 July 2012 in order to allow Captain Hale to affect an amendment. Nothing has transpired from either Captain Hales focused efforts, nor has the APA in any official capacity commented on these developments.
PLEASE, Understand this.
1) Americans Stand Alone Plan is fictitious JetBlue is their goal.
2) The APA is so myopic on management change that we are continuing a course of action, so shaky and anemic in terms of substantiation to the failed logic of you wont have to fly under it.
3) If you Vote YES / In favor of this LBFO, you will likely suffer under its compromised content for a minimum of six years.
4) If you elect to REJECT this TA, American will renegotiate to gain a labor agreement.
5) Last, but certainly not least, I am staking my own personal reputation behind stating these facts of the evenings dialog. My passionate pursuit of doing what is right has led me to revealing these details to you today.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the APA, look within your soul and please find the strength to vote with your dignity intact and overcome your fear.
We have less than a week before the final tabulation results of American Airlines Last Best Final Offer is revealed. I would be terribly remiss if I did NOT disclose to the membership a dialog session which transpired in Marina Del Rey, CA. The locale was the Warehouse, a restaurant, and I was accompanied by 15 fellow pilots of the LAX domicile, ranging from line pilots, check airmen, Flight Department Pilots who all dined with Captain John Hale and Senior VP of Operations, Mr. Jim Ream.
The meeting occurred on the eve of July 26th. Captain Hale was the financial host of the get together which was arranged specifically to give both Captain Hale and Mr. Ream a cross stratification from the most Junior in our base ranks to the most Senior, from managerial types to union advocates, for the sole purpose of edifying where the rank and file actually stand on this LBFO.
Once dinner was concluded, the small talk ceased as we moved to a more private setting in the restaurant where Captain Hale delivered some opening remarks then handed off the dialog to Mr. Ream who gave us a Macro Economic overview of American Airlines and the goals and Objectives he and others are trying to achieve.
After an opening question by one of our former negotiators was posed regarding the culture of distrust and apparent over reach of this TA, I followed on to ask Mr. Ream a multi faceted question relevant to his Macro vision, which is the heart of my post today.
I stated to Mr. Ream, since it is the public posture of APA for regime change with US AIR being the desired player, that the equity ploy (including F/As & mechanics) would still leave organized labor 15% short of a blocking vote. I felt the POR blocking strategy was indeed a long shot and would very possibly still find us working under a very draconian TA for the next 10 years.
I further stated, I feel American would pursue purchasing JetBlue. Therefore, the existing TA as it stands, leaves the American Airline pilot exposed.
In short, I explained that I felt manipulated and used by BOTH sides and he would not achieve labor peace with the pilots when the depth of deception was revealed. He appeared surprised by how much push back he was sensing from the pilots for he had been led to believe that this TA was a good deal for the pilots inside of bankruptcy.
My question was could He alter the TA before the vote was tabulated, if we could propose a viable argument for why such amendment was necessary.
Mr. Ream responded:
(Not exact quotes, but accurate content, vetted by three other pilots present.)
1) It is the desire of AAL to purchase JetBlue. This would be completed through a complex deal including debt, private equity and preferential shares. He explained that we are far along the road to negotiating this deal and the critical part is HAVING Contracts in place with LABOR. He further acknowledged that the same people that would be loaning us the money for Americans desired POR were consolidating Americans debt. By doing this, they are buying debt at a discounted rate, gaining power on the UCC and have little exposure for they know the financing is viable to emerge from BK.
2) IF the TA were to be voted down by a close margin, they would immediately RE-negotiate to gain a speedy solution with labor. Time being the critical factor to American Airlines due to the in place financing. He stated, the labor stress just ADDS to the Cost of Financing.
3) IF the TA passes, they have done their job for the creditors and have achieved the best deal possible for the debtors.
4) He indicated that changing the TA at this late stage was problematic. The money factor being locked and reported to the UCC. However, he wanted to hear what the pilots felt were the problem areas of the TA.
Dinner was concluded and some very valuable information was exchanged between all parties in attendance. The remainder of the eve was spent discussing the TA and how it affects the pilots. Mr. Ream asked those in attendance to send him 5 bullet points they would want to see in TA #2.
Friday / 27 July:
I was informed that a pilot who was present, had written a debrief and forwarded it to Negotiating Chairman Neil Roghair as well as both LAX Base Representatives.
The remainder of my day was spent sending the attendees 5 Bullet points to Captain Hale and Captain Smith.
Saturday / 28 July:
Captain Hale informed me he was going to be addressing MR. Horton, Ms. Denise Lynn (HR) and would be informing them of the pilots view of this TA from our dialog session.
I assured Captain Hale I would not disclose nor campaign the content of the Warehouse Revelations for five days to allow him to possibly get an internal solution to the very defective TA.
In Conclusion,
True to my word, I promised not to disclose nor discuss the events of 26 July 2012 in order to allow Captain Hale to affect an amendment. Nothing has transpired from either Captain Hales focused efforts, nor has the APA in any official capacity commented on these developments.
PLEASE, Understand this.
1) Americans Stand Alone Plan is fictitious JetBlue is their goal.
2) The APA is so myopic on management change that we are continuing a course of action, so shaky and anemic in terms of substantiation to the failed logic of you wont have to fly under it.
3) If you Vote YES / In favor of this LBFO, you will likely suffer under its compromised content for a minimum of six years.
4) If you elect to REJECT this TA, American will renegotiate to gain a labor agreement.
5) Last, but certainly not least, I am staking my own personal reputation behind stating these facts of the evenings dialog. My passionate pursuit of doing what is right has led me to revealing these details to you today.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the APA, look within your soul and please find the strength to vote with your dignity intact and overcome your fear.
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,120
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,120
CA Hale has since clarified this meeting.
Good morning, this is CA John Hale with the Flight Department Hotline for Friday, August 3.
I was planning to take this hotline and talk about something near and dear to every pilot’s heart, airplanes – some of the details on the incremental 777-300ER orders we confirmed today to demonstrate the growth that’s already taking place and an update on some of the milestones we’re seeing in our new Airbus fleet. However, it’s been brought to my attention that there is some misinformation out there about the TA and it would be a disservice to you if I didn’t take this time to address that instead.
Jim Ream and I have had a number of productive meetings and conversations with pilots around the system over the last few weeks. They’ve been candid and truthful, with the ultimate goal of helping pilots understand just what a critical decision we’re facing. However, it’s apparent from the report outs of some of those meetings that we weren’t successful in clearly communicating the next steps the company would pursue if the TA does not ratify.
There is no question that our goal is to achieve a consensual agreement with our pilots. It’s in the best interests of everyone, both the company and you all. And that’s why the company made the moves they did in the TA that’s in front of you – including the agreement to support an equity stake in the new American. We want to reach a consensual agreement without the judge’s ruling.
But let me be perfectly clear, contrary to what you may be reading or hearing, saying no to this TA means one thing – the company will ask for Judge Lane’s permission to abrogate the current pilot contract. That isn’t what we’d prefer, but it will be the only choice we have left. So there is no confusion, if the contract is abrogated, the company will immediately begin implementation of the April Term Sheet so that we can start realizing the savings necessary for a successful restructuring. A unilateral implementation of the April Term Sheet is not the outcome the company or I am hoping to achieve. But, if a consensual agreement is not reached, we will not wait any longer to implement the changes necessary for our company to successfully restructure and compete. We will of course continue to negotiate in good faith with APA in an attempt to achieve a new agreement consistent with our legal obligations. But, that will take time, and implementation of the April Term Sheet changes would begin and would remain in effect until a new contract is agreed upon and put in place. The April Term Sheet would also be the new starting point for those negotiations, not the terms of our tentative agreement.
A no vote can lead to only one thing – uncertainty and more pain. A failed TA and contract abrogation won’t bring an expedited, better deal, as some would have you believe. As I said at the beginning, this isn’t the message I wanted to focus on today but given the stage we’re currently in, I could not in good conscience ignore some of the misinformation that’s circulating. This is your life, your future, and your decision. The TA before you includes substantial improvements over the April term Sheet, and represents the limits to which we can responsibly go to meet APA’s and the pilots’ concerns. A failed ratification will take us down the path I’ve just described.
Contrary to another misperception from the meeting, the company has made no decisions regarding consolidation at this time. As we have communicated previously, we are undertaking a thorough and objective evaluation of all alternatives and options regarding consolidation.
The facts are before you and I can’t stress enough how important it is you understand the paths in front of you.
Thanks for all you do. Continue to fly aggressively safe, take care of each other, and have some fun out there. We’ll talk with you again next week. Take good care.
********************************************************
The current hotline can be heard on 800-967-4568
Could you name more than 4 or 5 Crew Chiefs removed for just cause.in the last decade
Yea and this guy could not understand why I wanted to get rid of the TWU he said they are a excellent union I have told anyone pilot who I come in contact with to keep a eye on Capt Concession.The pilots could have had this crap last year if they wanted it.
Plus 95% pilots are guranteed a job compared to not a dam one of us.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
Then it was a deal done, because that is not in the contract. There is nothing for demoting a crew chief for cause in the contract right now.
AC Tynker
Senior
- Jun 24, 2012
- 481
- 107
Wouldn't that be covered in PPC, in the contract the Crew Chief review panel would be used for selecting new Crew Chiefs by a mixed panel of union and management instead of just a test and seniority not for C/C demotion purposes. I could be wrong but I will defiantly make a call tomorrow and make sure I am correct. I don't know about you but a few of the C/Cs I have had over the years could tell you anything you wanted to know about SuperSAAver, what the cafeteria had on special or what the hot story was on USAToday was but you try to ask a question about the aircraft and you may as well ask the girl ringing up your food in the cafeteria
[font="Arial""]Judge Fears Pay Cuts Might Worsen Relations[/font]
[font="Arial""][font="Verdana""]U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Stephen S. Mitchell postponed a decision on whether to impose a requested 23 percent, or $38 million a month, across-the-board employee pay cut for at least six months. Another hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. Mitchell also did not rule on whether the airline could forgo past-due payments to its mechanics' and flight attendants' pension funds.
Mitchell expressed concern about whether implementing the pay cuts could have an adverse effect on future labor relations, possibly jeopardizing the airline's long-term reorganization plan.
"If I grant these cuts, will it increase the risk of labor strife with [employees] voting with their feet" to leave the company? Mitchell said. [/font][/font]
[font="Arial""][font="Verdana""]U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Stephen S. Mitchell postponed a decision on whether to impose a requested 23 percent, or $38 million a month, across-the-board employee pay cut for at least six months. Another hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. Mitchell also did not rule on whether the airline could forgo past-due payments to its mechanics' and flight attendants' pension funds.
Mitchell expressed concern about whether implementing the pay cuts could have an adverse effect on future labor relations, possibly jeopardizing the airline's long-term reorganization plan.
"If I grant these cuts, will it increase the risk of labor strife with [employees] voting with their feet" to leave the company? Mitchell said. [/font][/font]
