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Ward Lost

Chris, most of the TWA voters are now active, trained AA f/as. They are just as "worthy" as you or any other member. The slt vote was considerably smaller because those recalled have been dispursed to other bases. Can't blame this one on TWA.

If JW had come out with a little humility and admitted that he had gotten caught unprepared after 9-11 BUT that he had learned his lesson and he would not be duped again, he probably could have won. Also, if he had stated that unity was crucial to success and while preparing for negotiations he would be undertaking a system wide effort for unity and understanding, he would have received more suport. And finally, if he had been humble enough to offer to brain storm with representatives of the major factions and come together as a collective "brain team", I think he could have won.

Live and learn.


Nancy, Sorry if you misinterpreted my comments to read that the former TWA FAs who are now ACTIVE are unworthy. I was trying to point out to Veritas that maligning Texas FA voters who are active FAs was a little silly just because they voted for Ward and if he/she was going to go that route than they should also discredit the votes Glading got from INACTIVE former TWA FAs in STL.

You know how I feel about inactive FAs being allowed to vote so that's no secret. I do not have a problem with any active FA voting. I might not agree with who the majority of those voting voted for, but I don't discredit their right to vote.

It's also a little petty to try to state that any group swayed an election. It is what it is. Many chose to vote for someone I didn't want and many chose not to vote. So be it.
 
I was trying to point out to Veritas that maligning Texas FA voters who are active FAs...
Not maligning. Just pointing out that outside his home turf, Ward was rejected by two thirds of the membership. That is a pretty overwhelming margin.
 
Not maligning. Just pointing out that outside his home turf, Ward was rejected by two thirds of the membership. That is a pretty overwhelming margin.

I'm not from Texas and neither are any of my friends who voted for Ward. I found it pretty impressive that they endorsed him to such a large degree on his "home turf". Overhwhelming support like that speaks well about someone but if you want to look at it in a negative light, go right ahead.
 
I'm not from Texas and neither are any of my friends who voted for Ward. I found it pretty impressive that they endorsed him to such a large degree on his "home turf". Overhwhelming support like that speaks well about someone but if you want to look at it in a negative light, go right ahead.



I would not put too much into the Texas vote. If there is a backwards mentality then look no further then the great state of Texas. Most of the scabs are and were based at DFW and IDF....go figure.
 
Not maligning. Just pointing out that outside his home turf, Ward was rejected by two thirds of the membership. That is a pretty overwhelming margin.


There was no base, aside from LAX, where Glading and Co. were overwhelmingly supported. The fact that the R2R support was so overwhelming in LA speaks more about Nikides' popularity than Glading's. If he supported Ward, they would have gone Ward.

If you break it down domestic and international, INTL voted for the Ward slate. http://www.apfa.org/images/elections/natio...icer_runoff.pdf

You won, be happy. Don't rewrite the facts or history. It wasn't a landslide and it wasn't just Dallas who voted for him.
That's all I have to say. Now I have to go to the doctor and get a prescription for something. I don't know what, but something. 😛
 
There was no base, aside from LAX, where Glading and Co. were overwhelmingly supported. The fact that the R2R support was so overwhelming in LA speaks more about Nikides' popularity than Glading's. If he supported Ward, they would have gone Ward.

If you break it down domestic and international, INTL voted for the Ward slate. http://www.apfa.org/images/elections/natio...icer_runoff.pdf

You won, be happy. Don't rewrite the facts or history. It wasn't a landslide and it wasn't just Dallas who voted for him.
That's all I have to say. Now I have to go to the doctor and get a prescription for something. I don't know what, but something. 😛



I got a great chuckle out of that last paragraph. Love ya Chris.
 
Oh, for God sakes, J.W. was removed from office by the D.O. L. And his suck up attitude to AMR is laughable, John gave away things that the company was not even asking for. Juan Johnson kept the the faxed SLT ballots off to the side. John got caught with his pants down.

John is nothing but a crook.
 
If didnt know him and had never met him, viewing his antics and demeanor on the debate video should show what you see is what you get. An unprofessional, unpolished, 3 year old child.
 
I just got a "chubby" seeing DFW + IDF voting the loser's, in EVERY catagory, while JFK/LGA voted the Winner's in EVERY catagory(as some other bases did as well)

That SPEAKS volumes to me !!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I'm wrong, but this Glading chic, being based in NY must have something "on the ball", I mean "BS ing" a base like that, I'd Imagine would be hazrdous to your "health" ??


I'm just a ol' retiree bag smasher, AA flight Attendants,.....but you know what,....we as a country are VERY soon going to TAKE BACK this country from that ABYSMAL(Texas) RECTUM HOLE,.......So WHY NOT take your UNION BACK, from those Bastards in HDQ(and their sympathizers)

Maybe I'm "in the dark" with this observation, but the analysis of the voting pattern shows that with the right LEADER, there IS Strength just below the surface .
 
I just got a "chubby" seeing DFW + IDF voting the loser's, in EVERY catagory, while JFK/LGA voted the Winner's in EVERY catagory(as some other bases did as well)

That SPEAKS volumes to me !!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I'm wrong, but this Glading chic, being based in NY must have something "on the ball", I mean "BS ing" a base like that, I'd Imagine would be hazrdous to your "health" ??


I'm just a ol' retiree bag smasher, AA flight Attendants,.....but you know what,....we as a country are VERY soon going to TAKE BACK this country from that ABYSMAL(Texas) RECTUM HOLE,.......So WHY NOT take your UNION BACK, from those Bastards in HDQ(and their sympathizers)

Maybe I'm "in the dark" with this observation, but the analysis of the voting pattern shows that with the right LEADER, there IS Strength just below the surface .

I'm a real no BS new yorker from birth. I voted for Ward. Taking our union back doesn't involve giving it to Glading a career APFA, trip removed, lifer.

You want to see a union at work? Have you read Lloyd Hill's speech to the APA board? Now THAT'S a leader. VERY impressive. I'm jealous. I'm ready to pencil his name in for President of the U.S..

Lloyd Hill, president of the Allied Pilots Association, spoke to the union's board of directors Monday as the board kicked off its winter meeting. An APA representative kindly forwarded his speech, and we're printing it below.
A lot of it will require some industry understanding for such terms as cabotage and MEL items, etc.
But he also discusses some comments made last week by American Airlines chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey.

Mr. Hill's speech:
Good morning and welcome to APA's Winter 2008 Board of Directors meeting.
While a quick and successful conclusion to our Section Six bargaining is first and foremost on most pilots' minds, there are many unique challenges, and even perils, that lay directly in our path. Industry consolidation; US-EU open skies; ICAO alignment issues; cabotage; foreign ownership and foreign control, to name just a few.
With respect to our more conventional challenges, on the safety front our recent dealings have been excessive carrying of MEL items; poor stocking of spare parts; inferior parts; repetitive failures of the same parts; landing gear that won't extend; landing gear that won't retract; smoke in the cabin; smoke in the cockpit; in flight fires; hydraulic failures; electrical failures; inferior management functional flight check procedures or no functional flight check tests at all; aircraft immediately out of Tulsa ferried into position but found not ready for revenue service on first scheduled duty, resulting in unnecessary cancellations; aircraft leaving Tulsa being ferried into service that have to RTB for maintenance issues, sometimes via emergency; inferior composite testing policies and procedures; management's questionable handling of composite structure failures; management failure to comply with maintenance directives; and even management cover ups.
In their infinite zeal to cut costs, management has created an aircraft maintenance program dependent on duct tape, deferral placards and hope. And not to only to the next destination, but sometimes for multiple legs or until there is mechanical failure, sometimes catastrophic. Those of us who deal intimately with these problems everyday wonder what it's going to take for management to alter their approach to safety.
We're also dealing with pattern sick and sick frequency (although management has refused to define what either is); zero tolerance management rules of conduct that aren't zero tolerance at all when a manager's conduct is called into question, giving credence that these rules exist solely for employee intimidation purposes; management's reprehensible medical disability policies and punishment; management's creative contractual interpretations and unilateral implementation; management's often times unwillingness to explain how they arrived at their creative interpretations or what they mean; management's desire to have us cost share for a third party neutral in order to hear the basis for their creative interpretations; and management letters and actions that challenge if not flagrantly defy clearly stated contractual language, and particularly frustrating, language that has already been decided at arbitration.
We're still reeling on the training front from the merging of divisions and associated qualifications; reduction and even abolishment of training at Special Qualification airports; video replacement of quality schoolhouse training; distance learning; pink page changes, sometimes significant, that management implements without any associated training; significant reduction of our Check Airman corps; management reluctance and even unwillingness to provide a check airman when necessary or requested; and the ongoing ASAP saga, which after looking at management's dismal safety record, is something they should want a whole lot more than what they are feigning otherwise.
We are also dealing with several aspects of management's new toy - the electronic Docking Guidance System or DGS; along with insufficient and poorly adhered to ground equipment and jetbridge clearance procedures that have resulted in numerous unwanted aircraft "contact" events.
On the Governmental Affairs, Security, FAA, and NTSB front, we continue to challenge the recently introduced Allegheny-Mohawk provisions imposed onto APA; the adverse impact of several Age 65 ramifications; Long Haul and Ultra Long Haul, crew pairing, and management's repeated overrun on understated schedules that avoid prudent and safe cockpit manning; a litany of Flight Time Duty Time issues including the 8-hour max flying rule, Rest, Reserve Rest, Fatigue and ensuring the rightful consideration of well documented Time Since Awake studies; secondary cockpit barriers; operating rules for foreign carriers that operate in US airspace or at US airports; and several potentially adverse aspects of ICAO standardization. We are also still at work on crewmember screening issues; FFDO enhancements; and other security topics more suitable for private discussion. We are working with other unions - on this property and elsewhere, CAPA, industry analysts, Wall Street analysts, subject matter experts, legislators, and in general with whomever we believe can make a difference.
And then there's our number one priority - an industry leading contract. Considering all of the above is nothing more than a Cliff Notes layout of what your union deals with practically daily in addition to representing your career interests at the bargaining table, it's not terribly difficult to see that we are working harder than ever on multiple fronts to protect any and all of your career interests, wherever they may be.
At the bargaining table we are dealing with an unwilling and intransigent management team. And while we graciously welcome the involvement of this National Mediation Board, we cannot deny their history of anything but facilitating a timely negotiating process. We are nonetheless bound to engage in this process with an open mind, a willingness to listen and guarded optimism. And so we will.
As I close these Presidential comments, I would like to share an interesting but not unexpected recent development. During a meeting last week, Gerard Arpey made a plea for a better relationship, something he purportedly desires. When reminded about relationship problems caused by the constant onslaught of management discipline, punishment and even terminations, often times for miniscule reasons, not to mention the enormously divergent management/employee participation in our company's success, Mr. Arpey commented simply that the employees should just put all of that aside so labor and management could discuss other things. That was the extent of Mr. Arpey's epiphany. Labor just needs to set aside management's relentless persecution so management can discuss their other needs.
This maligned vision of how we get to a healthy relationship continues to weigh heavily on me, if not elude me entirely.
Mr. Arpey was reminded that if he truly wanted a better relationship, that earnest negotiations needed to commence post haste and the ridiculous employee floggings needed to cease immediately. Not unexpectedly, Mr. Arpey had no response.
Our challenges may be many and diverse, but we are up to the task.
Remember that your union is you, the membership. The leadership can lead, but the membership must be involved.
Thank you.
 
I'm a real no BS new yorker from birth. I voted for Ward. Taking our union back doesn't involve giving it to Glading a career APFA, trip removed, lifer.

You want to see a union at work? Have you read Lloyd Hill's speech to the APA board? Now THAT'S a leader. VERY impressive. I'm jealous. I'm ready to pencil his name in for President of the U.S..


So you want someone dismissed by the DOL in office? Ward sold your union down the river, otherwise you would not need to take it back. As for Mr. Hill, he takes no responsibility for his part in this dysfunction, instead trying to blame it all on Arpey/Management. Childish. That is not leadership, it is irresponsibility. Maybe he is trying to become the new Dubibsky.
 
I'm a real no BS new yorker from birth. I voted for Ward. Taking our union back doesn't involve giving it to Glading a career APFA, trip removed, lifer.

You want to see a union at work? Have you read Lloyd Hill's speech to the APA board? Now THAT'S a leader. VERY impressive. I'm jealous. I'm ready to pencil his name in for President of the U.S..

Lloyd Hill, president of the Allied Pilots Association, spoke to the union's board of directors Monday as the board kicked off its winter meeting. An APA representative kindly forwarded his speech, and we're printing it below.
A lot of it will require some industry understanding for such terms as cabotage and MEL items, etc.
But he also discusses some comments made last week by American Airlines chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey.

Mr. Hill's speech:
Good morning and welcome to APA's Winter 2008 Board of Directors meeting.
While a quick and successful conclusion to our Section Six bargaining is first and foremost on most pilots' minds, there are many unique challenges, and even perils, that lay directly in our path. Industry consolidation; US-EU open skies; ICAO alignment issues; cabotage; foreign ownership and foreign control, to name just a few.
With respect to our more conventional challenges, on the safety front our recent dealings have been excessive carrying of MEL items; poor stocking of spare parts; inferior parts; repetitive failures of the same parts; landing gear that won't extend; landing gear that won't retract; smoke in the cabin; smoke in the cockpit; in flight fires; hydraulic failures; electrical failures; inferior management functional flight check procedures or no functional flight check tests at all; aircraft immediately out of Tulsa ferried into position but found not ready for revenue service on first scheduled duty, resulting in unnecessary cancellations; aircraft leaving Tulsa being ferried into service that have to RTB for maintenance issues, sometimes via emergency; inferior composite testing policies and procedures; management's questionable handling of composite structure failures; management failure to comply with maintenance directives; and even management cover ups.
In their infinite zeal to cut costs, management has created an aircraft maintenance program dependent on duct tape, deferral placards and hope. And not to only to the next destination, but sometimes for multiple legs or until there is mechanical failure, sometimes catastrophic. Those of us who deal intimately with these problems everyday wonder what it's going to take for management to alter their approach to safety.
We're also dealing with pattern sick and sick frequency (although management has refused to define what either is); zero tolerance management rules of conduct that aren't zero tolerance at all when a manager's conduct is called into question, giving credence that these rules exist solely for employee intimidation purposes; management's reprehensible medical disability policies and punishment; management's creative contractual interpretations and unilateral implementation; management's often times unwillingness to explain how they arrived at their creative interpretations or what they mean; management's desire to have us cost share for a third party neutral in order to hear the basis for their creative interpretations; and management letters and actions that challenge if not flagrantly defy clearly stated contractual language, and particularly frustrating, language that has already been decided at arbitration.
We're still reeling on the training front from the merging of divisions and associated qualifications; reduction and even abolishment of training at Special Qualification airports; video replacement of quality schoolhouse training; distance learning; pink page changes, sometimes significant, that management implements without any associated training; significant reduction of our Check Airman corps; management reluctance and even unwillingness to provide a check airman when necessary or requested; and the ongoing ASAP saga, which after looking at management's dismal safety record, is something they should want a whole lot more than what they are feigning otherwise.
We are also dealing with several aspects of management's new toy - the electronic Docking Guidance System or DGS; along with insufficient and poorly adhered to ground equipment and jetbridge clearance procedures that have resulted in numerous unwanted aircraft "contact" events.
On the Governmental Affairs, Security, FAA, and NTSB front, we continue to challenge the recently introduced Allegheny-Mohawk provisions imposed onto APA; the adverse impact of several Age 65 ramifications; Long Haul and Ultra Long Haul, crew pairing, and management's repeated overrun on understated schedules that avoid prudent and safe cockpit manning; a litany of Flight Time Duty Time issues including the 8-hour max flying rule, Rest, Reserve Rest, Fatigue and ensuring the rightful consideration of well documented Time Since Awake studies; secondary cockpit barriers; operating rules for foreign carriers that operate in US airspace or at US airports; and several potentially adverse aspects of ICAO standardization. We are also still at work on crewmember screening issues; FFDO enhancements; and other security topics more suitable for private discussion. We are working with other unions - on this property and elsewhere, CAPA, industry analysts, Wall Street analysts, subject matter experts, legislators, and in general with whomever we believe can make a difference.
And then there's our number one priority - an industry leading contract. Considering all of the above is nothing more than a Cliff Notes layout of what your union deals with practically daily in addition to representing your career interests at the bargaining table, it's not terribly difficult to see that we are working harder than ever on multiple fronts to protect any and all of your career interests, wherever they may be.
At the bargaining table we are dealing with an unwilling and intransigent management team. And while we graciously welcome the involvement of this National Mediation Board, we cannot deny their history of anything but facilitating a timely negotiating process. We are nonetheless bound to engage in this process with an open mind, a willingness to listen and guarded optimism. And so we will.
As I close these Presidential comments, I would like to share an interesting but not unexpected recent development. During a meeting last week, Gerard Arpey made a plea for a better relationship, something he purportedly desires. When reminded about relationship problems caused by the constant onslaught of management discipline, punishment and even terminations, often times for miniscule reasons, not to mention the enormously divergent management/employee participation in our company's success, Mr. Arpey commented simply that the employees should just put all of that aside so labor and management could discuss other things. That was the extent of Mr. Arpey's epiphany. Labor just needs to set aside management's relentless persecution so management can discuss their other needs.
This maligned vision of how we get to a healthy relationship continues to weigh heavily on me, if not elude me entirely.
Mr. Arpey was reminded that if he truly wanted a better relationship, that earnest negotiations needed to commence post haste and the ridiculous employee floggings needed to cease immediately. Not unexpectedly, Mr. Arpey had no response.
Our challenges may be many and diverse, but we are up to the task.
Remember that your union is you, the membership. The leadership can lead, but the membership must be involved.
Thank you.



Laura Glading a trip removal lifer???? Ward was on full time trip removal from around 1989 through (illegally) late 2004. He was hired around 1983 so how much reserve did he actually do in his lifetime? When was he ever a "junior" FA?
Glading, on the other hand, has always returned to flying between her terms/assignments. You should know that being based at JFK.
She got her education and experience as a very successful APFA Rep in between and during flying. Besides, flying 140 hours per month does not qualify one to represent us in an arbitration or in negotiations. Would you want someone representing you with AA management if their only qualification was that they were a high time flyer?
I really wondered what Ward was going to do if he did get elected because it would be such a huge paycut for him and his "140" hours per month. Again, the only trips he flew all those years were trips that he picked up.
If you ever went to Laura's website you would have seen Lloyd Hill at one of her fundraisers.
You ripped Ward to shreds (and others) for the RPA yet supported him. Don't even try to do the Ward blame game of it's not his fault, it's the Board's fault. What a crock. Ward tried to play both ends against the middle to save his own butt. Waard thrived on the fact that the president doesn't HAVE to vote on the resolutions that come forward at the Board. It would have been a very different scenario if he actually HAD to vote and take direct responsibility like all those who did have to put pen to paper and vote. And, you, were willing to put all of our livelihoods into his hands again. You, are walking on quicksand.
Also on Waard's website: he stated that in the 2004 DOL investigation of his election that one of the DOL's remedies was to have a new election where he would have sat as president until that outcome. Never, nowhere, nunca was there ever any mention anywhere of having another election. A....flaat.....out....lie....by Waard......and yet, you, want to put our livelihoods into his hands. The DOL listed it as one of the "highlights" of the year. He was removed. Ward seems to have a problem with voting issues, eh?
Then, he lied yet again, about the seniortiy integration agreement. As a former president, he KNOWs that it is impossible to change the SIA which has been upheld in court. So, again, his level of dishonesty to this membership knows no bounds. He is a win at all costs, for himself, kinda guy.
 
I think Captain Hill is nothing but a scaremonger who is obsessed with the politics of management destruction.

I've been convinced of his loopiness since reading what he alleges is "persecution" on the part of the company's new sick policy. If requiring a doctor's note after 30 days of absence from work is persecution, tell me where to bear my cross. Also if anyone knows of any other companies that allow an employee to miss work for 30 days without checking in please let me know, as I want to work there.

Hill needs to realize that the pilot's interests and the company's are aligned. AA needs to be able to compete effectively, especially in this emerging environment of consolidation, which may make AA a (relatively) smaller fish when compared to the new mega carriers NW/DL and UA/CO.

Get a grip and get to work on some serious negotiations.
 
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