West pilot PBS

[767one]

Can someone answer some questions regarding west PBS? When you bid do you know the days the trips work, the number of legs and cities, the length of the ron, the pairing departure and arrival times, and last but not least how much input does the pilot group have in building the trips, and does the pilot group have oversight on the administration of PBS.


Thanks

 

[Ames]

Can someone answer some questions regarding west PBS? When you bid do you know the days the trips work, the number of legs and cities, the length of the ron, the pairing departure and arrival times, and last but not least how much input does the pilot group have in building the trips, and does the pilot group have oversight on the administration of PBS.


Thanks

The pilot group does have input on the administration of PBS. Pairings are produced showing the days they work. You bid your desires based on a weighted system, 0 - 1000 points. You can bid specific pairings or types of trips, report time ranges, release time ranges, number of legs, length of legs, specific cities to fly through and/or RON. You can bid for TAFB or flight time. The variables cover almost every possible desire and it works very well.

I believe that because the most senior guys get exactly what they want there is more availability for junior guys to get what they want because, with line bidding, there is a certain amount one gets that they don't want in a senior trip which goes to junior pilots in PBS.

I was honestly one of the most bitter opponents of PBS when it came out but am now the biggest cheerleader. One of my biggest loves of the system is with vacation. I bid one week vacations on the very beginning or end of a bid period, then bid a string of up to seven days off leading into and out of the vacation. (seven in one month and seven in the other) I turn one week into three, four times a year.

I know the east pilots hate the thought of PBS and understand because I was in their place hating it at one time. I believe they would come to love it as much as the west pilots do if they would just educate themselves on it.

 

[767one]

The pilot group does have input on the administration of PBS. Pairings are produced showing the days they work. You bid your desires based on a weighted system, 0 - 1000 points. You can bid specific pairings or types of trips, report time ranges, release time ranges, number of legs, length of legs, specific cities to fly through and/or RON. You can bid for TAFB or flight time. The variables cover almost every possible desire and it works very well.

I believe that because the most senior guys get exactly what they want there is more availability for junior guys to get what they want because, with line bidding, there is a certain amount one gets that they don't want in a senior trip which goes to junior pilots in PBS.

I was honestly one of the most bitter opponents of PBS when it came out but am now the biggest cheerleader. One of my biggest loves of the system is with vacation. I bid one week vacations on the very beginning or end of a bid period, then bid a string of up to seven days off leading into and out of the vacation. (seven in one month and seven in the other) I turn one week into three, four times a year.

I know the east pilots hate the thought of PBS and understand because I was in their place hating it at one time. I believe they would come to love it as much as the west pilots do if they would just educate themselves on it.

Thanks Ames,

.
At the risk of being redundant can a pilot look at a specific trip before they bid? Now we have our trip pairings available to peruse before the bidding starts and you know everything important about the trip (trips) you are bidding. A moot point for me but if another pilot asks me my opinion of PBS I want to be able to provide the proper info. I could of course look it up in the west contract but I want the opinions of those who are using the PBS system now.

 

[nic4us]

Thanks Ames,

.
At the risk of being redundant can a pilot look at a specific trip before they bid? Now we have our trip pairings available to peruse before the bidding starts and you know everything important about the trip (trips) you are bidding. A moot point for me but if another pilot asks me my opinion of PBS I want to be able to provide the proper info. I could of course look it up in the west contract but I want the opinions of those who are using the PBS system now.

Another fuction of our PBS system is it has an analyzer.

Say you tell it show me after 10 am, release me by 2 pm, RON me in DUB, and I want 3 day trips, and give me weekends off and at least 4 days in a row going into my vacation, and you weight all of those preferences accordingly.

You then use the analyzer and it will show you which pairings would meet those criteria.

Now you can add those specific pairings as bid choices if you like them, or massage your weighting to your preferences.

For instance you heavily weigh DUB layovers, but that pairing does not meet the other criteria ( show after 10 and off by 2). That would become apparent with the analysis, and it would also show you that there is say a trip that meets all the criteria, but RONs in FLL for 20 hrs. Now all you have to decide is which is more important, Guinness or sunshine.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I suspect that most easties use Rick Spurlock's Winbid program. PBS is basically an industrial strength version of that without the limitation imposed by having pre-built lines.

Jim

 

[fodase]

You get pairings weeks before PBS runs, you can bid specific pairings and on specific days

 

[767one]

You get pairings weeks before PBS runs, you can bid specific pairings and on specific days

Thanks for the info.

 

[fodase]

The flexibility is pretty incredible, within your seniority constrictions of course.

 

[crazystnic]

My buddy is at CAL and says that PBS is the single worst contract change they have made. He is a junior 767 capt

 

[jimntx]

You have to remember that PBS is not some monolithic system that works the same at every airline. First, you have a strong dependence upon the software vendor. Then, you have to allow for how much does the company control the parameters. I have a friend who flies for Frontier and another who flies for Alaska. Both have pref bidding, but both also say that the PBS at Frontier is better than the PBS at Alaska. The Frontier software is programmed for maximum flexibility.

However, the friend at Frontier also says that since Republic took over, they have been "meddling" in the parameters, and the system is not as flexible as it used to be. Republic uses the "unstacking" process much more readily than was used previously. It reduces the number of pairings that end up in open time after the bids are run, but it also reduces bidder flexibility, and if you are more junior may take your original award away from you completely.

 

[Move2CLT]

My buddy is at CAL and says that PBS is the single worst contract change they have made. He is a junior 767 capt

A couple of my buddies over there say that they wouldn't bid without it again.

Some make the effort to learn it and are very successful with their scheds.

Others don't put in the effort and suffer with crap trips.

You get what you give.

 

[Move2CLT]

You have to remember that PBS is not some monolithic system that works the same at every airline. First, you have a strong dependence upon the software vendor. Then, you have to allow for how much does the company control the parameters. I have a friend who flies for Frontier and another who flies for Alaska. Both have pref bidding, but both also say that the PBS at Frontier is better than the PBS at Alaska. The Frontier software is programmed for maximum flexibility.

However, the friend at Frontier also says that since Republic took over, they have been "meddling" in the parameters, and the system is not as flexible as it used to be. Republic uses the "unstacking" process much more readily than was used previously. It reduces the number of pairings that end up in open time after the bids are run, but it also reduces bidder flexibility, and if you are more junior may take your original award away from you completely.

That's why you need pilot gatekeepers.

 

[Barrister]

The pilot group does have input on the administration of PBS. Pairings are produced showing the days they work. You bid your desires based on a weighted system, 0 - 1000 points. You can bid specific pairings or types of trips, report time ranges, release time ranges, number of legs, length of legs, specific cities to fly through and/or RON. You can bid for TAFB or flight time. The variables cover almost every possible desire and it works very well.

I believe that because the most senior guys get exactly what they want there is more availability for junior guys to get what they want because, with line bidding, there is a certain amount one gets that they don't want in a senior trip which goes to junior pilots in PBS.

I was honestly one of the most bitter opponents of PBS when it came out but am now the biggest cheerleader. One of my biggest loves of the system is with vacation. I bid one week vacations on the very beginning or end of a bid period, then bid a string of up to seven days off leading into and out of the vacation. (seven in one month and seven in the other) I turn one week into three, four times a year.

I know the east pilots hate the thought of PBS and understand because I was in their place hating it at one time. I believe they would come to love it as much as the west pilots do if they would just educate themselves on it.

What numbe are you bidding and do you commute??

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Move2CLT]

What numbe are you bidding and do you commute??

NICDOA
NPJB

What does that have to do with anything.

You get what your position can hold. Top of seniority gets what they want and bottom gets the leftovers.

Those leftovers are better than what you'd get with a paper bid.

Most of the time, lines awarded with PBS don't have to be modified because the pilot gets what he bid for.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I know the east pilots hate the thought of PBS and understand because I was in their place hating it at one time. I believe they would come to love it as much as the west pilots do if they would just educate themselves on it.

No they don't "hate it".

Early 90s the USAir MEC ran a series of simulations with some three different vendors and up to 60% of senior choices were denied, even with the most expensive system available, something the company was not willing to spend money on.

The east has spent quite a bit of money researching the issue and while "hatred" is pretty strong, justified aversion is a more useful phrase.

It is not a money saver for the company, they refuse to cede the issue of placing their desired pilot on the trip they want him to be, therefore, we will always have the company interceding and making themselves comfortable, first. How much were you willing to give up to "get" PBS? I bet, a lot, and the company still has the last say, fronting the usual facade of "choice".

Nail those management bastard's feet to the floor, then we will talk.

Oh, and at least several employees believe the company, on the latest FA tentative, were trying to write their own PBS, with their own backdoors, etc. to run the system their own way. Anything like the QIK abortion?