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West pilot PBS

Move2CLT said:
But as I stated before, wouldn't it be better if #2 was automatically awarded the ABQ RON instead of having to SAP for it?
Click to expand...

If it opens after PBS? Regardless, the flexibility we have is unmatched. Why don't you want more flexibility in your schedule? Something comes up next week, your kid makes the playoff's, you have to go to the dentist etc. No problem, go on the bid sheet and pick something up and drop what you have to avoid the conflict. No problem, its easy.

Flexibility is good.

Skier
 
flyingskier said:
If it opens after PBS? Regardless, the flexibility we have is unmatched. Why don't you want more flexibility in your schedule? Something comes up next week, your kid makes the playoff's, you have to go to the dentist etc. No problem, go on the bid sheet and pick something up and drop what you have to avoid the conflict. No problem, its easy.

Flexibility is good.

Skier
Click to expand...

I spoke with one of our guys that flew at Republic during the furloughs. PBS can have flaws if it is not run properly. In his case he bid x mas off and didnt get it, but 5 pilots junior to him did. Had to do with the "rules" the company placed in the system for holidays etc. Basically the company can change the settings at will. After the xmas thing he(and others in his base) watched the bids a bit closer and found all kinds of "tweaks" done to the system that ended up with out of seniority awards and such. He said they would never have been able to spot the issues if there had not been about 10 of them from various seniority levels comparing what they bid to what they got etc.

Basically Pilot A who is senior might end up with a set of bids being "invalid" for a specific week due to some scheduling tweak in the system, meaning a slight schedule change after the data was loaded into PBS for the month, that schedule change even a small one would cause a pilots bids to go invalid and the a junior pilot would be awarded what the senior pilot wanted. With no recourse or way to fix it.

Not saying that is happening at airways but it can be messed with. Will ask a continental buddy next time I talk to him if they have any problems with PBS there. I guess they are still using it after the merger. Never thought to ask him since then.
 
Here are some PBS facts:

1. The West pilots currently use PBS.

2. The East pilots have already approved PBS, which is authorized per LOA 93.

3. US Airways has reviewed the PBS programs from 3 different vendors.

4. Chip Mayer told me PBS is like Winbid and SAP on steroids.

5. The proposed new Pilot PBS system is almost identical the scheduling system in the old AFA TA.

Detailed PBS rules negotiated in the AFA TA

• Union involvement in all facets of PBS.
• Three Months of parallel bidding to introduce PBS.
• Bid as low of 40 or as high 110 hours (line average)
• Many sorting capabilities.
• Bid pairings positions on different aircraft types (like SAP).
• Bidding is approximately 2 weeks prior to bid month.
• Same bid and award date for Lineholders and Reserves.
• With PBS Domestic Pairing Generation:
• If FA has seven day block of vacation, FA can add a 4 day extension buffer.

ISAP (Improved and more powerful than SAP)

• Runs after PBS monthly bid award and then daily throughout the bid month.
• Persistent bids can be entered in the program.
• DROP and/or ADD throughout entire bid period like SAP
• Maximum/ceiling exists.

AIL function in ISAP

• Ability to drop touching trips regardless of “staffing”
• AIL ceiling/maximum
• No daily limits but monthly limits can be triggered.
• Eliminates requirement to meet monthly flying obligation.
• Replaces weekend restriction with holiday restriction (104 weekend days versus 8 holidays)
• Activity can go down to 40 hours.

Real time ETB boards

• Will be awarded up to 2 Hours before report upon implementation of PBS.
• Reserves have the same practice has today with respect to Moveable Days.
 
USA320Pilot said:
Here are some PBS facts:

1. The West pilots currently use PBS.

2. The East pilots have already approved PBS, which is authorized per LOA 93.

3. US Airways has reviewed the PBS programs from 3 different vendors.

4. Chip Mayer told me PBS is like Winbid and SAP on steroids.

5. The proposed new Pilot PBS system is almost identical the scheduling system in the old AFA TA.

Detailed PBS rules negotiated in the AFA TA

• Union involvement in all facets of PBS.
• Three Months of parallel bidding to introduce PBS.
• Bid as low of 40 or as high 110 hours (line average)
• Many sorting capabilities.
• Bid pairings positions on different aircraft types (like SAP).
• Bidding is approximately 2 weeks prior to bid month.
• Same bid and award date for Lineholders and Reserves.
• With PBS Domestic Pairing Generation:
• If FA has seven day block of vacation, FA can add a 4 day extension buffer.

ISAP (Improved and more powerful than SAP)

• Runs after PBS monthly bid award and then daily throughout the bid month.
• Persistent bids can be entered in the program.
• DROP and/or ADD throughout entire bid period like SAP
• Maximum/ceiling exists.

AIL function in ISAP

• Ability to drop touching trips regardless of “staffing”
• AIL ceiling/maximum
• No daily limits but monthly limits can be triggered.
• Eliminates requirement to meet monthly flying obligation.
• Replaces weekend restriction with holiday restriction (104 weekend days versus 8 holidays)
• Activity can go down to 40 hours.

Real time ETB boards

• Will be awarded up to 2 Hours before report upon implementation of PBS.
• Reserves have the same practice has today with respect to Moveable Days.
Click to expand...

Monthly line bidding, sap and the bid sheet have far more flexibility.

If you don't want to fly that two day you can just call up and drop it as long as there is coverage. I've dropped at leat 7 trips in the last year just by doing so.

There has been no issues with dropping due to coverage


Nothing can beat it for flexibility
 
The one thing I would change is that bidding and awards would occur earlier. I don't know if it is still true, but when my friend went to work at Frontier, they knew by the 5th or 6th of the current month what their next month's schedule would be. It would make planning one's life so much easier. Here at AA I won't know my May schedule until the 25th or 26th of this month. It would also require the company to be a little more serious about "advance" planning--i.e., adding/dropping flights and routes.

The people I know that have PBS love it. They hated it at first because they were so used to line bidding from a preset, printed schedule. But, once they got their parameters tweaked to their satisfaction, they loved the fact that they don't have to bother with a bidsheet every month. The only time they have to even consider it is if a new route is added they want to fly.
 
jimntx said:
The one thing I would change is that bidding and awards would occur earlier. I don't know if it is still true, but when my friend went to work at Frontier, they knew by the 5th or 6th of the current month what their next month's schedule would be. It would make planning one's life so much easier. Here at AA I won't know my May schedule until the 25th or 26th of this month. It would also require the company to be a little more serious about "advance" planning--i.e., adding/dropping flights and routes.

The people I know that have PBS love it. They hated it at first because they were so used to line bidding from a preset, printed schedule. But, once they got their parameters tweaked to their satisfaction, they loved the fact that they don't have to bother with a bidsheet every month. The only time they have to even consider it is if a new route is added they want to fly.
Click to expand...


Primary Lines for May closed March 22.

Sap for May closed March 28.

Secondary lines for May closed April 8.

Reserve lines for May close April 15

RTBS (CQT training Bid) closes April 21.

FA's are usually a day or two later.

Skier
 
T
Keroseneuser said:
Basically Pilot A who is senior might end up with a set of bids being "invalid" for a specific week due to some scheduling tweak in the system, meaning a slight schedule change after the data was loaded into PBS for the month, that schedule change even a small one would cause a pilots bids to go invalid and the a junior pilot would be awarded what the senior pilot wanted. With no recourse or way to fix it.
Click to expand...
Probably what he is talking about is the parameter that says a junior pilot's schedule cannot become illegal due to the bid award of a senior pilot. I don't know how often that happens, but it isn't a result of nefarious "tweaking" of the PBS program. They really don't have the time or manpower to reinvent PBS every month and expect the schedule to be built on time. Once they ironed the bugs out of it the first couple of months, by and large they leave it alone. Yes, occassionally there are mistakes, but that doesn't mean PBS should be tossed out because of them.

AWA pilots were up in arms over PBS initially. They thought they had veto rights to PBS as a result of their "satisfaction survey", but later found out that they really didn't. Once the realization set in that PBS was a foregone conclusion, they figured out how to use it and now you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is as vehemently opposed to PBS today as they were 12 years ago.

I hear there are plans for a re-make of the show "Movin' On" but instead of a truck driver, they are using the USEast pilot group.

I wish.
 
Crazystnic said: Monthly line bidding, sap and the bid sheet have far more flexibility. If you don't want to fly that two day you can just call up and drop it as long as there is coverage. I've dropped at leat 7 trips in the last year just by doing so. There has been no issues with dropping due to coverage. Nothing can beat it for flexibility.

USA320Pilot comments: I disagree. According to Chip Mayer in a conversation he and I had US Airways' new PBS system is much, more more powerful than Line Bidding, SAP, and the Bid Sheet. The new ISAP program runs 24 hours per day (there is a small window when it's closed) for the entire month, applications are available for smart phones, and provides much more flexibility than the East's current scheduling system.

In addition, PBS is already included in the East pilot's contract and I understand PBS was included in the NAC's comprehensive proposal. I believe the Line Bidding, SAP, and the Bid Sheet is dead for East pilots once the parties get to a joint contract.
 
Move,

You're witnessing a phenomenon that goes back at least as far as the PSA/PI/US mergers - if it isn't the way US has always done it, it's no good. Seems that over the last two decades the virus has spread to those absorbed into US...

Jim
 
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