Chip you are incorrect about being paid for work already preformed. All employees will get that eventually, can take up to 2 years to get it but they will eventually get money for service rendered so to speak.
delldude
Veteran
It appears that voting Yes is the only way that you have any chance of having a job, severance pay, health insurance life insurance and flight priviledges etc. It has been spelled out that not ratifying will be the demise of a fine airline that is so close to a succcessful new beginning. For all of you that are bitter and for good reason right now or are holding grudges for the past management, give the present management a chance to do something that will benefit the majority of those now employed and many furloughed. It is a rough world out there job wise.
I just want to address the health insurance briefly as I understand it. You will be devestated if you cannot have Cobra protection and at that, it is expensive. And if someone in your family is not making a good salary, you cannot afford Cobra if you have it. And if U shuts down, you will not be eligible for Cobra. That is a definite Cobra rule.
There is an excellent article on Cobra. The most profound statement is that if a company no longer has a health plan, one is no longer eligible for Cobra, PERIOD!!! If U goes under this is what they are spelling out.
You will find this at http://r144.com/InsArticle006.htm :
Coverage begins on the date that coverage would otherwise have been lost by reason of a qualifying event and can end when:
-The last day of maximum coverage is reached
-Premiums are not paid on a timely basis
-[:The employer ceases to maintain any group health plan :]
-Coverage is obtained with another employer group health plan that does not contain any exclusion or limitation with respect to any pre-existing condition of such beneficiary
-A beneficiary is entitled to Medicare benefits
I have read this board for some time and health insurance has just been ignored by most. I know personally how paying a large amount for a health ins premium cuts the budget. I really do not think most reaize how expensive it is. Think about paying around 8- 9,000 dollars counting deductibes,plus plus a year. That is what a good non company plan costs a family or a couple if it covers well. I know personally how this affects my family and it leaves little for much else. This year it was a God send as my husband became ill and it paid way over 125,000 in medical bills. We still had a some to pay, but very little for what Blue Cross paid for us.
I understand the frustration of wage cuts, higher premiums, furloughs etc, but voting no will not solve it. I have dealt in insurance for many years, worked with it in a hospital setting in a doctors office and know the ins and outs. Please take time and read about Cobra as Chip and Oldiebutgoodie, and Fly are correct re Cobra and other things and only want the best for all it appears. They are no soliciting your vote but trying to save your job,it seems to me ,by furnishing information that some might not be aware of.
If you are an individual that will not have a company plan or might be self employed or unemployed, it behooves you to check with health insurance companies and you will find out that not everyone will be accepted if they have a lot of preexisting or take many medications. The HIPPA does not say they HAVE to write a policy for you. It just softens the preexisting conditons when changing policies.
Do your family, and your co-workers that want to continue working a favor ,and vote sensibly. I honestly see no other way out of it as the Dr. Bonner spoke and I think he means what he said and who can blame him. He has built an empire for the ARS with good business sense, has faith in this airline and expects it to succeed. Management needs the co-operation of every able body to lend a hand and hope for success and continued employment as well. Stop thinking union or non union but just use your head and think what is best for you and the company in the long run. Then if you are so unhappy, go elsewhere, which is best for many, but in the meantime most of you will have a job and benefits,which unfortunately too many take too lightly.
Why do I care? I have 2 sons in aviation and both are union members,so that is why. I have read U boards for several years and feel a part of the U family and care about each of your futures, truly. Also, I care about all unemployed and just wonder how they are going to make it with no benefits at all. 42 million people in this country do not have health insurance and that figure is rising every day.
I cannot believe that anyone will pop their buttons if this is not ratified and USAirways is closed down. How could one take pride in the demise of an entire company? Too many will be hurt and you employees could pull it off by ratifying this contract.. Do not wait for another proposal,as I truly do not think there will be one. How much more can anyone give? United is going to contract out much of their mechanic work as it is cheaper per an article I read yesterday. And it can happen to you but try and see if it will not with cooperation. Everyone cannot be a winner for sure. But some will if you all work together instead of bickering back and forth. A new year is coming. The past one has been especially hard on all of you and me too as a mom . I care little about the loss in the market in comparison to what is happening to all involved. Let 2003 be a good one and the Lord will bless each of you and some how, you will manage on diminished wages until you can find something that is more in line with your desire in life. Best of luck to you all .
Just my two cents for what it is worth.
Trish
I just want to address the health insurance briefly as I understand it. You will be devestated if you cannot have Cobra protection and at that, it is expensive. And if someone in your family is not making a good salary, you cannot afford Cobra if you have it. And if U shuts down, you will not be eligible for Cobra. That is a definite Cobra rule.
There is an excellent article on Cobra. The most profound statement is that if a company no longer has a health plan, one is no longer eligible for Cobra, PERIOD!!! If U goes under this is what they are spelling out.
You will find this at http://r144.com/InsArticle006.htm :
Coverage begins on the date that coverage would otherwise have been lost by reason of a qualifying event and can end when:
-The last day of maximum coverage is reached
-Premiums are not paid on a timely basis
-[:The employer ceases to maintain any group health plan :]
-Coverage is obtained with another employer group health plan that does not contain any exclusion or limitation with respect to any pre-existing condition of such beneficiary
-A beneficiary is entitled to Medicare benefits
I have read this board for some time and health insurance has just been ignored by most. I know personally how paying a large amount for a health ins premium cuts the budget. I really do not think most reaize how expensive it is. Think about paying around 8- 9,000 dollars counting deductibes,plus plus a year. That is what a good non company plan costs a family or a couple if it covers well. I know personally how this affects my family and it leaves little for much else. This year it was a God send as my husband became ill and it paid way over 125,000 in medical bills. We still had a some to pay, but very little for what Blue Cross paid for us.
I understand the frustration of wage cuts, higher premiums, furloughs etc, but voting no will not solve it. I have dealt in insurance for many years, worked with it in a hospital setting in a doctors office and know the ins and outs. Please take time and read about Cobra as Chip and Oldiebutgoodie, and Fly are correct re Cobra and other things and only want the best for all it appears. They are no soliciting your vote but trying to save your job,it seems to me ,by furnishing information that some might not be aware of.
If you are an individual that will not have a company plan or might be self employed or unemployed, it behooves you to check with health insurance companies and you will find out that not everyone will be accepted if they have a lot of preexisting or take many medications. The HIPPA does not say they HAVE to write a policy for you. It just softens the preexisting conditons when changing policies.
Do your family, and your co-workers that want to continue working a favor ,and vote sensibly. I honestly see no other way out of it as the Dr. Bonner spoke and I think he means what he said and who can blame him. He has built an empire for the ARS with good business sense, has faith in this airline and expects it to succeed. Management needs the co-operation of every able body to lend a hand and hope for success and continued employment as well. Stop thinking union or non union but just use your head and think what is best for you and the company in the long run. Then if you are so unhappy, go elsewhere, which is best for many, but in the meantime most of you will have a job and benefits,which unfortunately too many take too lightly.
Why do I care? I have 2 sons in aviation and both are union members,so that is why. I have read U boards for several years and feel a part of the U family and care about each of your futures, truly. Also, I care about all unemployed and just wonder how they are going to make it with no benefits at all. 42 million people in this country do not have health insurance and that figure is rising every day.
I cannot believe that anyone will pop their buttons if this is not ratified and USAirways is closed down. How could one take pride in the demise of an entire company? Too many will be hurt and you employees could pull it off by ratifying this contract.. Do not wait for another proposal,as I truly do not think there will be one. How much more can anyone give? United is going to contract out much of their mechanic work as it is cheaper per an article I read yesterday. And it can happen to you but try and see if it will not with cooperation. Everyone cannot be a winner for sure. But some will if you all work together instead of bickering back and forth. A new year is coming. The past one has been especially hard on all of you and me too as a mom . I care little about the loss in the market in comparison to what is happening to all involved. Let 2003 be a good one and the Lord will bless each of you and some how, you will manage on diminished wages until you can find something that is more in line with your desire in life. Best of luck to you all .
Just my two cents for what it is worth.
Trish
Trish[BR][BR] Lots of God given common sense in your post. On the insurance issue, yes a real pain as I personally know, but if someone is really bad off, SS is the answer. The gloom and doom and all the rage and frustration posted on these boards probably keeps some from taking the leap, which is a good thing. Telling people how and why they must vote stirs deep emotions on both sides. Every individual will vote for self preservation no matter what they post here, how do I know? God given common sense of course.[BR][BR] Read "Tough Times In Rough Places" to see what bad times really are.
Cav...laws have changed since the orginal BN went out of business. If memory serves me correct employees of a company that has gone belly up are now classifed as creditors and they can be paid somewhere in the 2 year period.
[FONT face=System size=1]you forgot number 11 chip[BR][BR]11.No more of my pro management lectures or stating of the painfully obvious.[/FONT]
Cavalier,
First, I am sorry that you have had experience in your family that put you in a position for someone to seek SS or SSI . I realize that only very very sick, disabled or limited income people can get this. But this type of coverage does not apply to the majority of families at USAirways anymore than Medicaid does. They are all nice if you can get it but few can and it is limited at that. That is why I suggested that everyone contact an insurance carrier to see where they stand before voting away health coverage and/or Cobra along with many of their other privileges.
I was just pointing out that as I was told recently, if one takes much of medication, has questionable or many pre-existing conditions, an insurance company most likely will refuse you coverage UNLESS they write you up as high risk and the premiums are out of sight. I have dealt with insurance for over 30 years and know what I am talking about. 5 years ago, Cobra ran about 230 for one person a month with BCFL and now it has almost doubled. The only affordable way to be covered is through a company plan in many cases.
If worse comes to worse, most will find another job and hopefully their company will offer health insurance. But in the meantime, I hope they dot the i's and cross the t's to make sure they are not left out in the cold. Because if not, many are going to be very shocked when their children are sick over and over as many are, or themselves or their spouse, and the bills start rolling in.
You mentioned that I read Tough Times in Rough Places. I am very familiar with this sad historical story but it has absolutely nothing to do with the current thread.
I realize that venting is good and therapeutic but often some venting is not in the best interest of anyone. I also do not want to engage in a public forum so my case is closed. I was just trying to add some information to this thread that Chip started and one that Flyonthewall had posted for the benefit of those that were not familiar with what could happen if Cobra is not available Let us all hope that this does not occur.
We have our free agency so everyone will indeed vote their conscience no matter what anyone posts.
Chip, Thanks for starting this thread as hopefully it will help someone out.
Trish
First, I am sorry that you have had experience in your family that put you in a position for someone to seek SS or SSI . I realize that only very very sick, disabled or limited income people can get this. But this type of coverage does not apply to the majority of families at USAirways anymore than Medicaid does. They are all nice if you can get it but few can and it is limited at that. That is why I suggested that everyone contact an insurance carrier to see where they stand before voting away health coverage and/or Cobra along with many of their other privileges.
I was just pointing out that as I was told recently, if one takes much of medication, has questionable or many pre-existing conditions, an insurance company most likely will refuse you coverage UNLESS they write you up as high risk and the premiums are out of sight. I have dealt with insurance for over 30 years and know what I am talking about. 5 years ago, Cobra ran about 230 for one person a month with BCFL and now it has almost doubled. The only affordable way to be covered is through a company plan in many cases.
If worse comes to worse, most will find another job and hopefully their company will offer health insurance. But in the meantime, I hope they dot the i's and cross the t's to make sure they are not left out in the cold. Because if not, many are going to be very shocked when their children are sick over and over as many are, or themselves or their spouse, and the bills start rolling in.
You mentioned that I read Tough Times in Rough Places. I am very familiar with this sad historical story but it has absolutely nothing to do with the current thread.
I realize that venting is good and therapeutic but often some venting is not in the best interest of anyone. I also do not want to engage in a public forum so my case is closed. I was just trying to add some information to this thread that Chip started and one that Flyonthewall had posted for the benefit of those that were not familiar with what could happen if Cobra is not available Let us all hope that this does not occur.
We have our free agency so everyone will indeed vote their conscience no matter what anyone posts.
Chip, Thanks for starting this thread as hopefully it will help someone out.
Trish
trish, force majure changes everything.Didnt haji say that 9/11 gave the company an opportunity to do what even 2 years ago wasnt possible?[BR][BR]how many yes votes are out on their asses when the first bomb falls on iraq?only a matter of time before that happens...then it all goes into the fan.[BR]look closer at the fine print, doesnt even take a bomb, troop depolyment will do the trick.[BR][BR]
[P]Trish[BR][BR]On my mention of that story, it was mentioned because looking at these posts made me think some people don't realize how bad things can really be, we live in a cushy society.[BR][BR]Insurance in this country is another whole topic, just pointing out people won't die, "IF" they really have serious problems. Like you, this I know.[BR][BR][BR]I feel holding a hammer over people with threats of doom and gloom and even possible death least one submits is counterproductive and a big reason for many of my posts. People are not stupid, most anyway, and realizing that times are tough they will do what is necessary. To all the people who say "I can find another job making more"; Go and look on monster.com and see what is available and what kind of education they want to make that lesser money. The thing today is getting the MS because the 4 year degree doesn't carry as much weight, now reduce that to NO degree and look around and see what you can find that even comes close to what U offers even AFTER all cuts are considered. Unless of course you can start your own business and work 95 hours a week getting it up and running, which we all can't do for different reasons. People who don't posses that 4 year degree and even more education and/or don’t have lots of money tucked away are left with only one real choice. The others bought their freedom through education, hard work or both knowing they can leave U behind and tomorrow start over no problem. The remaining people, well good luck in the scavenge hunt. [/P]
[P]FYI…A manager I know lost his job right after 9/11, he is a smart and personable guy. With no success in finding another job he has been going to flea markets and selling stuff on eBay, he told me even that is slow too, just like the economy. [/P][FONT size=2][/FONT]
[P]FYI…A manager I know lost his job right after 9/11, he is a smart and personable guy. With no success in finding another job he has been going to flea markets and selling stuff on eBay, he told me even that is slow too, just like the economy. [/P][FONT size=2][/FONT]
Cavalier,[BR][BR]Your post was excellent and addressed the job market dilemma in our country right now. An example is someone I know personally that has no degree, worked himself up in a small company to VP. , only to lose his job after 27 years of hard work due to salary cut backs . I am not talking about a 6 figure salary either. He will never find what he had or even come close to it at age 50 plus and no degree , just experience. He is working now but barely making it. So as you implied, unemployment is not desirable at all and is usually a disaster if it lasts too long. That is why I am so concerned about unemployment in general. There are new college grads without jobs. Then there are those with degress that are now unemployed and also living with mom and dad again until they can afford housing of their own. As you said, without skills or a degree, it even gets worse. Experience is so necessary but does not hold water in some job markets. My sister is now working full time and going to college at age 45 on a student loan even though she has a wealth of legal experience but needs her degree if she ever changes her job of 28 years. Just another example.[BR][BR]I live in a resort area and most hourly workers think 7 to 10 per hour is a good salary as that is the average. I saw what happened to this area during the Gulf War. It was dead. We only had some tourists to keep it going. What will happen next year here and everywhere? I will not ponder that. Let's wait and see. Maybe you are right about venting some.!![BR][BR]Thank you for your explanation and comments as they were well intended as were mine. Let us hope that the apparent war will not pull unemployment further down and that not many more will get furloughed with U to met the company budget. Most of all , lets hope for a merciful judge in January.[BR][BR]I wish you and your family the best in the coming year.[BR][BR]Trish
