What did the judge say?

With all due respect for the single mothers. I sympathize with you and your financial situations, however this ruling is more about the future of our industry, not just US Airways. This judge is going to establish the corner stone of all future rulings on pensions and retirement packages. With his ruling, so goes industry, not just airlines. It's called establishing precedent.
 
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On 2/28/2003 3:11:12 PM D3o2r8kdrvr wrote:

Did the judge rule today?
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must not be going to well for the ALPO clan as mrplanes seemed a little stressed out today.
 
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On 2/28/2003 3:39:14 PM D3o2r8kdrvr wrote:

With all due respect for the single mothers. I sympathize with you and your financial situations, however this ruling is more about the future of our industry, not just US Airways. This judge is going to establish the corner stone of all future rulings on pensions and retirement packages. With his ruling, so goes industry, not just airlines. It's called establishing precedent.

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D3o2,

You just hit the major, major point here! Hope all read it.


 
Bob your posts are falling on deaf ears it seems. Those that make over $100,000 a year don't give a hoot about those that make less than them.

If this company survives to see March 31, I would be surprised. I they liquidate U, oh well it's been a nice time flying them. But I will be stranded in LGW. Guess I had better make back up plans in case they start to float to the surface and start stinking fast.

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Reuters
US Air pilots want restructuring scaled back
Friday February 28, 6:50 pm ET
By John Crawley


ALEXANDRIA, Va., Feb 28 (Reuters) - Pilots at US Airways Group Inc. (OTC BB:UAWGQ.OB - News) said on Friday they want the bankrupt airline to scale back its restructuring proposal to save their pension program or negotiate changes to the retirement plan.US Airways has said it can no longer afford the pilots retirement plan and wants to replace it with one that would offer $850 million over seven years. The carrier says resolving the $1.6 billion pension liability is the last major hurdle it faces in Chapter 11 reorganization.

The Air Line Pilots Association disagrees with the company's assertion that it has signed off on the proposal and expressed skepticism on a March 31 target set by the airline to emerge from bankruptcy protection.

"Our position is that it is a timeline to terminate our pension plan," Roy Freundlich, the airline pilots' union spokesman, told reporters.

The union, in a presentation to be made on Saturday in bankruptcy court, wants the company to scale back its plan to invest between $3 billion and $4 billion over the next several years to dramatically expand its regional jet program.

Short of that, the pension plan issue should be decided in head-to-head negotiations instead of bankruptcy court, Freundlich said.

US Airways Chief Executive Officer David Siegel has called the regional jet program the cornerstone of the company's future and said meeting the deadline was crucial to survival.

"If we delay past March 31, we run an extremely high risk of never emerging," Siegel told Judge Stephen Mitchell of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia on Friday.

The airline needs Mitchell to agree that it can legally terminate the pilot pension program and the judge could decide the matter immediately after he hears both sides.

The U.S. Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., a self-funding government agency that backs corporate pensions, must also approve the plan.

The issue is the last obstacle blocking the company's restructuring by the March 31 time frame, but pilots oppose such a move because it would cost some members as much as 75 percent of their retirement income.

About 1,100 US Airways pilots are retired and receiving benefits averaging about $36,000.

US Airways has said it must emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection from creditors by the end of March under its deal with its credit card processor National Processing Co., a unit of National Processing Inc. (NYSE:NAP - News)

After that date, the airline said it would no longer have a credit card processor to handle transactions.

US Airways must also resolve the pension issue before it can get $200 million in emergency financing from its biggest investor, and final approval for a $1 billion loan mostly backed by the government.
 
"The union, in a presentation to be made on Saturday in bankruptcy court, wants the company to scale back its plan to invest between $3 billion and $4 billion over the next several years to dramatically expand its regional jet program."




You know what that means, the less U spends on RJ's, the more will be contracted-out dumpy outfits like Mesa and Trans-states.
 
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On 2/28/2003 5:59:06 PM LavMan wrote:

Reuters
US Air pilots want restructuring scaled back
Friday February 28, 6:50 pm ET
By John Crawley


"The union, in a presentation to be made on Saturday in bankruptcy court, wants the company to scale back its plan to invest between $3 billion and $4 billion over the next several years to dramatically expand its regional jet program."

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This is disappointing, if accurate. After the years of proper complaints that Wolf had no Plan B, ALPA presents their position which may contain no viable business plan alternative.

"Get us the money instead of buying or leasing assets" is not an position that will enable this airline to emerge from Chapter 11 in 31 days.

Before those of you in the front seats jump on my case, I was a pilot too. I know the training time, cost and effort you put in. The deal on the table far exceeds what you will get if the company liquidates (but you already know that).

Please stop posturing. Some in management do not seem to be able to handle too many problems at the same time. Let them focus on something else.
 
In the above article it states there are approximately 1100 pilots averaging 36K per year in retirement benefits. If this is an accurate figure, it is because these same pilots elected the option to take a reduced lump sum at retirement with on-going monthly benefits. So, in essence they walked away with a nice retirement (just guessing, maybe 750K rather than the 1 million). I agree it was a negotiated benefit and they are entitled to the benefit. However, accurate reporting should be encouraged.
 
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On 2/28/2003 3:41:32 PM LavMan wrote:

It only becomes precedent when it is a supreme court decision
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Uh, no.

Precedent can be any decision reached by a court regarding a unique application of law to a particular set of circumstances.

The "precedent" ruling can then be either affirmed or overturned by a court of higher authority (generally appellate level, but not necessarily), and then challenged upward. It then acts as binding authority on the lower courts of the same jurisdiction, and pursuasive authority to courts of differing jurisdictions.

The Supreme Court (a court of federal and constitutional jurisdiction)is rarely involved.

F/A, Esq.
 
Benchmark Law 101

It is true that once the Supreme Court rules on an issue all evolving questions are usually answered. It may be years before this type of scenario is ever presented to the highest courts, therefore; this ruling matters to everyone as it will serve as a benchmark for future cases until the highest courts are able to hear a simialar case that establishes due process.

We are confronted with many hurdles. Most of which are behind us. However, far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing and I have begun to question if that work lies with US Airways.
 
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On 2/28/2003 8:22:20 PM ExitPointer wrote:

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On 2/28/2003 3:41:32 PM LavMan wrote:

It only becomes precedent when it is a supreme court decision
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Uh, no.

Precedent can be any decision reached by a court regarding a unique application of law to a particular set of circumstances.

The "precedent" ruling can then be either affirmed or overturned by a court of higher authority (generally appellate level, but not necessarily), and then challenged upward. It then acts as binding authority on the lower courts of the same jurisdiction, and pursuasive authority to courts of differing jurisdictions.

The Supreme Court (a court of federal and constitutional jurisdiction)is rarely involved.

F/A, Esq.






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LIKE I STATED...EVERYONE WILL BE FLYING AROUND FAT-DUMB AND HAPPY WHILE THIS ISSUE GOES THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM.DUH
 
Exitpointer, Can a ruling in a bankruptcy case be appealed? This issue needs to be resolved now and a lengthy appeal could to great damage to U's chances of a successful emergence. Thanks for your reply. Savy