Big question for all AA unions

olderguyAMT

Advanced
Jun 12, 2010
238
41
Here is the ultimate question of utmost importance to all of us:
What will Judge Lane rule before June 6th?
Will the Judge rule in favor of abrogation of all our contracts, while accepting the co.'s alleged (speculative, incomplete, and math fuzzy ) Stand-Alone-Plan analysis that conveniently omits competitive responses from other airlines,
or will the judge force the co. to consider and implement the alternative methods that include merger in the co.'s drive for cost cuts in the section 1113 process????????

Two likely outcomes present themselves here. With one, we all get hammered to a pulp. With the other, the beating will more tolerable. Your opinion please. All are invited to respond. Survey Says:
 

MCI transplant

Veteran
Jun 4, 2003
5,312
587
This Bk is a shame! No Company, I repeat, no Company, should be allowed to go into BK with four, plus, billion $$$ in cash in the Bank!!! It's sole purpose is to breack Union Contracts!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person

Frank Szabo

Veteran
Aug 21, 2010
1,622
488
Broken Arrow, Okiehoma
The accountants know how to provide a never-ending flow of incentives for the workers to do a good job, don't they?

The judge has the option of either abrogating or not - that's all. Not sure if he can tell why or not, but my bet is that all the testimony given will be a waste of time - abrogation, even if the SOBs are hiding assets and otherwise making a mockery of the process.
 

Frank Szabo

Veteran
Aug 21, 2010
1,622
488
Broken Arrow, Okiehoma
This Bk is a shame! No Company, I repeat, no Company, should be allowed to go into BK with four, plus, billion $$$ in cash in the Bank!!! It's sole purpose is to breack Union Contracts!
It would seem the company tired of the cozy relationship with their subsidiary of so many years - or at least this is engineered to give that appearance.
 

CMH_GSE

Veteran
Apr 22, 2012
710
708
I see no reason why he would rule early either way. The case will be going on pretty much right up to the 6th.

I am on record as saying we are on the wrong side of history no matter how compelling of a case we have.
 

NYer

Veteran
Jun 4, 2010
4,169
923
The Judge doesn't have the power to infuse USAir into the mix. That has to come from the Creditors or the airline itself. At least, as long as AA has exclusivity to only submit their plan.

The Union experts say the Plan won't work and the AA experts will say the plan will work. Who do you think the Judge will side with?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person

AANOTOK

Veteran
Oct 10, 2009
4,627
2,395
The Judge doesn't have the power to infuse USAir into the mix. That has to come from the Creditors or the airline itself. At least, as long as AA has exclusivity to only submit their plan.

The Union experts say the Plan won't work and the AA experts will say the plan will work. Who do you think the Judge will side with?
Correction, only AA experts say it will work. The nuetral analyst say it won't work!
 

paul1

Veteran
Mar 11, 2010
852
176
yes the Judge is getting untill 22june now. Judge Lane states most 1113c motions take days this is taking 3 weeks ( no this isn't a quote from the Judge)

I believe on the alliedpilots.org website they state they will be meeting with AA in a court supervised sessions. I hope the same is coming us. There is still time for AA to settle this thing with the unions properly. I think the longer time the Judge needs the better for us. I'm not expecting the stars to shine through, but some real movement on both sides.


https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/ctl/ArticleView/mid/1983/articleId/1188/Bankruptcy-judge-changes-deadline-for-ruling-to-June-22.aspx
 

1AA

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
6,054
4,303
www.usaviation.com
Can someone answer this question with facts?

Can the Judge abrogate one work group contract and not others?
Is it all contracts or nothing?

I ask because each union is in court fighting the company with their facts and reasons. So if the pilots can prove that there is not enough reason to abrogate then how could they abrogate ours or the flight attendants?
 

Buck

Veteran
Contributor
Aug 20, 2002
7,322
1,576
www.fairtax.org
AS TO THOSE UNITS THAT VOTED YES TO ACCEPT THE LAST OFFER: Q. When does the offer actually go into effect?

A. First, the court has to ultimately approve the five agreements. This is certainly expected to happen, but there is no time set for this to occur. Second, TWU and AA have an understanding that the new agreements, even after court approval, will not go into effect until all the other union labor groups, (including M&R and Stores,) have resolved their 1113 bankruptcy asks. The groups that voted yes will not have to experience the concessions until all contract groups have completed their 1113 process, either by ratifying a deal or by having their contract rejected. All groups will be treated equally as to the start time of any concessions.

Q. What happens if another group gets a better overall ask than the one to which our bargaining unit agreed?

A. Through the “me-too” clause contained in the ratified contracts as well as pursuant to the understanding we have with AA, each group who voted yes will receive the same percentage reduction in their total give back amount as does any other bargaining group. However, AA maintains that all groups must still meet their full ask amounts.

Q. While we await the outcome of the 1113 process for the remaining bargaining units, what working conditions and terms do we work under?

A. We will still operate under the current existing TWU contract that we have been working under for years. There is no change in the status quo.

Q. When will the 1113 process be completed?

A. While the court has announced it will issue a ruling in early June, there is no way to actually know when the judge will issue a final order with regard to AA’s 1113 motion to reject and cancel the contracts as to the other contract groups.

Q. Does our yes vote affect the pursuit of a possible US Airways merger by TWU and the other unions?

A. No, we remain very supportive of this possible merger.

Q. Will our TWU lawyers still present a case in bankruptcy court regarding the five units that voted yes?

A. No. By ratifying the last ask, each of those units ended the risk of the judge canceling their contract. New successor agreements have been tentatively reached awaiting court approval.

FOR THE TWO GROUPS THAT VOTED NO AND REJECTED THE LAST OFFER:

Q. Are the TWU lawyers still presenting the union case contesting AA’s 1113 motion to reject the M&R and Stores collective bargaining agreements?

A. Yes.

Q. When will the judge issue his final ruling on AA’s 1113 motion to reject our two contracts?

A. While the court indicated that its ruling is due in early June, there is no way to know exactly when the decision will issue.

Q. Will there be additional 1113 negotiations between TWU and AA before the judge rules on the motion seeking to reject our two contracts?

A. The judge has consistently encouraged all parties to negotiate and reach a consensual deal. He has even offered to have another judge informally assist the lawyers in the talks. The pilots and flight attendants have been in talks over the last week and are in front of us at this time. We anticipate that there will be more court settlement talks.

Q. If no settlement agreement is reached, what happens next?

A. We await the judge’s final ruling on the 1113 motion to reject the two CBA’s.

Q. If the judge does in fact reject our contracts, what terms will we then work under?

A. The terms of the AA March 22 1113 term sheet filed in court. (That term sheet does not include raises, the 401k match, profit sharing and other items including the return of pre-funding company contributions, if such is approved by the court).

Q. While the 1113 process keeps unfolding, are we still pursing the possible US Airways merger?

A. Yes, we are operating on multiple tracks and are very supportive of that possible merger.
 

eolesen

Veteran
Jul 23, 2003
15,714
9,343
Can the Judge abrogate one work group contract and not others?
Is it all contracts or nothing?

I ask because each union is in court fighting the company with their facts and reasons. So if the pilots can prove that there is not enough reason to abrogate then how could they abrogate ours or the flight attendants?

Fleet and the other five groups won't be abrogated.

M&R, Stores, APFA and APA will be evaluated alone. As an example only, it's possible that M&R, Stores, and APA could be abrogated, and APFA sent back for more discussions.