What has the company done to increase revenue?

[Busdrvr]

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On 12/29/2002 7:23:26 PM KCFlyer wrote:

Unless you're prepared to offer something for that $10 to $30, just how "superior" is the service? Extra almonds in the snack mix? Face it, for flights under 4 hours you're offering peanuts and a coke. All things being equal, there isn't a $10 to $30 premium for the service offered on U versus SWA. [/BLOCKQUOTE]
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You've never flown first class on U have you? (I have and I've flown SWA) Yes, even the snacks are FAR superior.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 12/29/2002 7:57:07 PM KCFlyer wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 12/29/2002 7:38:41 PM Busdrvr wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]You've never flown first class on U have you? (I have and I've flown SWA) Yes, even the snacks are FAR superior.
[/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]


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[BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]


They weren't willing to sell me a first class ticket for $10 to $30 over the price of a SWA ticket. Sorry. You should try coach sometime - posh mini pretzels, lip smacking snack mix, and of course, gourmet peanuts. [/P]
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[/blockquote]


I do, and I'll say from experience, the coach experience at U, AMR, UAL and DAL is FAR superior to that at SWA, and they usually don't let the drunks on board.

 

[KCFlyer]

An additional comment busdriver - when I was younger and more foolish with my money, I often flew first class on Delta, American, and US (back when they were plane old USAir). And I do admit, FC on USAir was far superior to that of Delta or American. Little things like eyeshades for domestic flights, a "ditty bag" for the passenger, and an ever so thoughtful "please wake me for meal service" (or conversely please do not disturb me). But as I grew older and had a family to provide for, I found that coach seats work just fine, thank you. But I can assure you, my ticket price was considerably more than what a SWA coach seat went for. That's why I say, an additional $10 to $30 for the exact same service level you can get on Southwest (along with the $100 penalties for even THINKING about changing) wouldn't be tolerated by the average consumer sitting in coach. [BR][BR]I believe that's where some of the majors went wrong - they forgot about the 100+ folks behind the curtain and catered to a group in the first class cabin, despite the fact that over time, the folks in the first class cabin weren't paying the first class fare. Rather, they were the "elites" who exercised their "upgrade privilege" on a less than Y class fare. It's a great perk for those who get it, but it really tends to eat away at your profits.

 

[irak]

FWIW, I will never fly SWA because the cattle call lining up for tickets drives me up the wall. Making a connection between flights, getting stuck boarding at the end of the line, having to find someplace to stow my laptop because all the discount leisure travelers have nothing better to do than arrive at the airport to be in line for their A,B,C boarding cards 2 hours before the flight.

Yes, I will pay $10, $30, even $50 a tix for assigned aisle seating. I have enough hassles traveling for business without worrying about getting a seat on the "bus with wings".

 

[Tango-Bravo]

[blockquote]
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On 12/29/2002 11:29:32 AM TomBascom wrote:

Simply put US Airways has to undercut SWA because SWA enjoys a premium in the customer mind. SWA is known for low fares and fair treatment of customers. US and the other majors are known for nickle and dime tactics, gouging their customers at every turn and a byzantine morass of rules and restrictions. On the whole customers trust SWA. They do not trust US (or UA, CO, DL, AA & NW).


This can be fixed but it will take time and commitment to a clear positive message. Something that management shows no signs of being interested in.
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Thanks for the insightful post. How right you are in pointing out a crucial intangible--one that has an altogether tangible effect on the bottom line. Customers from elites at the highest level down to the least frequent flyers are fed up with the in-your-face games the Big Six persist in playing.

SWA treats every customer as a valued customer and with genuine respect--ie no "got ya" games. If Herb Kelleher were to weigh in on this subject, my guess is that his response (in a way only he could say it) would go something like this:

"We don't play games with our Customers because there would be only one loser -- SWA. Most of our customers would be smart enough to beat us at our own games; those who weren't would become alienated."

Another "Herbism" along these lines might go like this: "We have a 'preferred' customer program -- it is comprised of all the Customers our People are serving at any given time."

SWA invariably establishes itself as the airline of choice in markets it serves -- and it isn't only because they always offer the lowest fares all the time. It is as much or more so because, as TomBascom notes, Southwest can be trusted because there are none of the umbrage-provoking smoke-and-mirrors, bait-and-switch, money-grab shenanigans as practiced by the Big Six.

Could it also be that the Employees of Southwest are the happiest and most productive (ie profitable) because they trust management and are therefore willing to "get on board" and do what it takes to succeed? And could it be that the Employees of Southwest trust their managers for precisely the same reasons their Customers trust their airline?

And could it be that the employees of the Big Six do not trust their managers for precisely the same reasons their customers mistrust their airlines?

 

[7.5victim]

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On 12/29/2002 9:40:25 PM irak wrote:

FWIW, I will never fly SWA because the cattle call lining up for tickets drives me up the wall. Making a connection between flights, getting stuck boarding at the end of the line, having to find someplace to stow my laptop because all the discount leisure travelers have nothing better to do than arrive at the airport to be in line for their A,B,C boarding cards 2 hours before the flight.

Yes, I will pay $10, $30, even $50 a tix for assigned aisle seating. I have enough hassles traveling for business without worrying about getting a seat on the "bus with wings".
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Actually, if you'd take the time to educate yourself about the changes at WN, you'd know that the legendary lines for BPs are a thing of the pass. BPs can now be issued at the gate, ticket counter, or at CURBSIDE! How 'bout that. Oh, and WN has NEVER catered to the connecting traveller.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 12/29/2002 11:09:21 PM Tango-Bravo wrote:

"Another "Herbism" along these lines might go like this: "We have a 'preferred' customer program -- it is comprised of all the Customers our People are serving at any given time.""

So SWA doesn't have a FF program?

"SWA invariably establishes itself as the airline of choice in markets it serves -- and it isn't only because they always offer the lowest fares all the time. It is as much or more so because, as TomBascom notes, Southwest can be trusted because there are none of the umbrage-provoking smoke-and-mirrors, bait-and-switch, money-grab shenanigans as practiced by the Big Six."

I'd be willing to bet there is more than one "oversized" pax who would "weigh" in differantly on that subject after being held hostage for double fare in the middle of a trip...

"Could it also be that the Employees of Southwest are the happiest and most productive (ie profitable) because they trust management and are therefore willing to "get on board" and do what it takes to succeed? And could it be that the Employees of Southwest trust their managers for precisely the same reasons their Customers trust their airline?"

It's funny, those SWA pilots I know aren't very "happy", they are either frieghtened or POed at the senior union members. As for trust, yeah right, everybody trusts your on-time record....


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[/blockquote]

 

[autofixer]

Busdrvr, I was quoteing none other than evil Bob Crandal in the "Wall Street Journal". Heck I don't care if anyone pays attention...let it sink I am on my own! Typical Allegehny, we know best; or "Trust us, we know how to run an airline." No dumber words have ever been spoken. Good luck, you are going to need it.

 

[autofixer]

How about this for a new "old" idea for increasing revenue? CARGO! I know the genuis E.I. Colodny(Whilley E. Coyote) said, "We are a passenger airline, not a cargo airline." However, I understand the yield on 15 pounds of cargo (on average) is the same as one paying passenger.

How about increasing the cargo carried to compensate for the low yields? Duhh! Unions and management are going to kill this industry!

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 12/30/2002 12:08:49 AM autofixer wrote:

How about this for a new "old" idea for increasing revenue? CARGO! I know the genuis E.I. Colodny(Whilley E. Coyote) said, "We are a passenger airline, not a cargo airline." However, I understand the yield on 15 pounds of cargo (on average) is the same as one paying passenger.

How about increasing the cargo carried to compensate for the low yields? Duhh! Unions and management are going to kill this industry!
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Bulk cargo doesn't pay well. That 15 pound number you are quoting is likely for express mail. Unless you have a network like UPS or Fed-ex, it is tough to work. Nothing wrong with using it to supplement the bottom line though.

 

[KCFlyer]

[BR][STRONG]"Another "Herbism" along these lines might go like this: "We have a 'preferred' customer program -- it is comprised of all the Customers our People are serving at any given time.""[BR][BR]So SWA doesn't have a FF program? [BR][/STRONG][BR]Yes they do...but they treat the first time flyer the same way they treat the person who's earned a companinon pass. None of this "We'd like to begin boarding our platinum elite, followed by the gold, silver, and tin level elites. To hell with families with small children, who are most likely flying on some loss leader fare which causes us to lose money"[BR][BR][BR][STRONG]"SWA invariably establishes itself as the airline of choice in markets it serves -- and it isn't only because they always offer the lowest fares all the time. It is as much or more so because, as TomBascom notes, Southwest can be trusted because there are none of the umbrage-provoking smoke-and-mirrors, bait-and-switch, money-grab shenanigans as practiced by the Big Six."[BR][BR]I'd be willing to bet there is more than one "oversized" pax who would "weigh" in differantly on that subject after being held hostage for double fare in the middle of a trip...[BR][BR][/STRONG]All righty Cap'n, the "Issue" on this has been about the "embarassment" caused by this...not the money. So here's the deal...the flights full. No first class seats available. I'm a double platinum elite who's pissed off that I couldn't get my upgrade into FC. So I'm in econ plus, which has nice leg room but not much more butt room. Next to me is a full fare weighty passenger. I ring the FA call button and tell her that I do NOT want this gentlemen to raise the armrest. Now...the primary issue being "embarassment", how do you handle this...Stand them up like a side of beef at a meat market and ask if anyone would like to trade seats, or ask them to get off the plane and take a later flight. Remember...you don't want to embarass him, although my ringing the FA call bell already started the embarassment clock ticking. [BR][BR][STRONG]Could it also be that the Employees of Southwest are the happiest and most productive (ie profitable) because they trust management and are therefore willing to "get on board" and do what it takes to succeed? And could it be that the Employees of Southwest trust their managers for precisely the same reasons their Customers trust their airline?"[/STRONG][BR][BR]It's funny, those SWA pilots I know aren't very "happy", they are either frieghtened or POed at the senior union members. As for trust, yeah right, everybody trusts your on-time record....

 

[N628AU]

If you "pop the brakes" and a door opens (say to add more bags), ACARS shows a return to gate and kicks a new time.

 

[Rhino]

Busdrvr, your continued jabs at SWA hurt my feelings and make all us SWA employees feel very badly. All of us wish we'd been talented enough to work for a great airline like UAL. We're so jealous.

 

[TomBascom]

[blockquote]
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On 12/29/2002 9:40:25 PM irak wrote:

FWIW, I will never fly SWA because the cattle call lining up for tickets drives me up the wall. Making a connection between flights, getting stuck boarding at the end of the line, having to find someplace to stow my laptop because all the discount leisure travelers have nothing better to do than arrive at the airport to be in line for their A,B,C boarding cards 2 hours before the flight.

Yes, I will pay $10, $30, even $50 a tix for assigned aisle seating. I have enough hassles traveling for business without worrying about getting a seat on the "bus with wings".
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[/blockquote]

It's really not at all bad if you actually try it. Which is yet another reason why US Airways should be working real hard to keep us from trying it... (U management ought to spend some time flying SWA -- it would do them a world of good. Of course it would do them a world of good to fly U too...)

 

[CPRich]

[blockquote]
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On 12/30/2002 7:53:38 PM TomBascom wrote:

It's really not at all bad if you actually try it. Which is yet another reason why US Airways should be working real hard to keep us from trying it... (U management ought to spend some time flying SWA -- it would do them a world of good. Of course it would do them a world of good to fly U too...)
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Sorry, but, yes, it is all that bad. After several years off from my last experience, I figured I'd give SW another try a couple weeks ago. Egads, I'll do anything I can to avoid that airline.

And to whomever said that the long lines were a thing of the past - there was a line of 40 people that rushed up the boarding station as soon as they announced that the incoming aircraft was in range. I'm not exagerating in the slightest - they stood there for 30 minutes+ for it to land, taxi, deplane, and prep. And it was all by A/B/C, so the earlier you're there, and the quicker you get in line, the better seat you get (of course, they weren't quite bright enough to count the number of people in the area vs the capacity of a 737. I got on just about last and got a nice aisle seat, half way back, with the rest of the row empty.)

I'll gladly pay $30-$50 for an assigned seat, preferential treatment that recognizes me as a frequent revenue generator, ability to travel with a crew of loud drunks, and ongoing 'amusing' chatter over the PA. In fact, I have done so (more than $50) over the last few weeks as I take UA and AA over SW (and over US - Ben's cockroach remarks and the other hate-the-customer moves still keep this long-time CP away).