Whats an FA Make these Days

[ArtTang]

As a senior domestic F/A for American Airlines at the maximum pay scale, my annual is now about $36,000. I am not calculating the per diem rates because this is non-taxable money that is not part of our W2 earnings; also, per diem varies from one crew member to the next. Before this concessionary package that AA imposed on us, my annual was at about $41,500. In all my years flying international (I flew international for about 16 years) as a purser and language speaker, I NEVER made more than $58,000 in one year. I made $58,000 in the year 2000, but I had to work quite a few incentive (overtime) hours to get that high; 2000 remains my highest year of earnings at AA ever.
I have met maybe two or three F/As over the years who made $80,000 but they worked a tremendous amount of overtime and were never home. The myth that F/As earn $60,000-$80,000 is just that: a myth. Our regular earnings are quite modest, as you can gauge by my annual salary of $36,000.
Hope that answers some questions and clears up the misconceptions about our salary.
Art Tang

 

[pricklyheat]

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Again, Prickly, you love to "flame" with us, we still don''t know who you work for, your postion, or your salary.
Let us know your salary and position before posting another possible "flame" posting.  

Just my 2 cents,

Coop


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Sure No Problem See new Thread.
By the way I can only find time to post on the weekends due to the hours I put in. I have never even considered dividing my income by the hours I work or am on call. It is part of the job.

Thanks

 

[L1011Ret]

I was part of the team investigating the L-1011 crash DesertFox refers to above. All I can say is thank god for the well trained F/As.

 

[mga707]

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On 6/7/2003 10:46:29 AM pricklyheat wrote:
By the way I can only find time to post on the weekends due to the hours I put in.
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What? You''re off on weekends?
Lazy slacker...


To most people in the airline industry (along with many other fields), the term "weekend" is pretty much meaningless...

 

[Dea Certe]

One thing this flight attendant *doesn''t* make is apologies for my hard-earned pay check!

Dea

 

[dogdriver]

Dear Pricklyheat,
Why are you afraid to say what it is that you do for a living? How much of an expense are you? These are simple questions that I only ask because you ask the same of others. It seems only fair that if you are going to sit in judgment of others that you be "man" enough to let others judge you.

 

[meechy36]

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On 6/10/2003 10:40:21 AM dogdriver wrote:

Dear Pricklyheat,
Why are you afraid to say what it is that you do for a living? How much of an expense are you? These are simple questions that I only ask because you ask the same of others. It seems only fair that if you are going to sit in judgment of others that you be "man" enough to let others judge you.

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He said he was in tne medical industry, I think that means he peddles Viagra and Penis Enlargement Kits on AOL.

Mike-BOS

 

[pricklyheat]

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He said he was in tne medical industry, I think that means he peddles Viagra and Penis Enlargement Kits on AOL.

Mike-BOS

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Don''t need them.

Thank You

 

[JFK777]

Not enough.

 

[SANman]

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On 6/7/2003 851 AM ArtTang wrote:

As a senior domestic F/A for American Airlines at the maximum pay scale, my annual is now about $36,000. I am not calculating the per diem rates because this is non-taxable money that is not part of our W2 earnings; also, per diem varies from one crew member to the next. Before this concessionary package that AA imposed on us, my annual was at about $41,500. In all my years flying international (I flew international for about 16 years) as a purser and language speaker, I NEVER made more than $58,000 in one year. I made $58,000 in the year 2000, but I had to work quite a few incentive (overtime) hours to get that high; 2000 remains my highest year of earnings at AA ever.
I have met maybe two or three F/As over the years who made $80,000 but they worked a tremendous amount of overtime and were never home. The myth that F/As earn $60,000-$80,000 is just that: a myth. Our regular earnings are quite modest, as you can gauge by my annual salary of $36,000.
Hope that answers some questions and clears up the misconceptions about our salary.
Art Tang

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Art/anyone else who can answer -

For those of us who experience this industry from the outside, can someone shed light on hours put in by an F/A? The common perception is that people only fly a couple of days, but I''m guessing the reality is that most are on the road quite a bit more than that. For someone making in the mid 30''s, how many hours are you flying? And how many nights are you away from home?

Please don''t take these questions the wrong way (not that that EVER happens on this board ) - it''s really ignorance of the job that''s prompting them. I have no interest in debating whether someone''s salary is too high or too low - that''s none of my business. I''m really just curious (although I suspect that if you''re on the road as much as I think, it''s far too low).

 

[ArtTang]

Sanman asks:
For those of us who experience this industry from the outside, can someone shed light on hours put in by an F/A? The common perception is that people only fly a couple of days, but I''m guessing the reality is that most are on the road quite a bit more than that. For someone making in the mid 30''s, how many hours are you flying? And how many nights are you away from home?

Please don''t take these questions the wrong way (not that that EVER happens on this board ) - it''s really ignorance of the job that''s prompting them. I have no interest in debating whether someone''s salary is too high or too low - that''s none of my business. I''m really just curious (although I suspect that if you''re on the road as much as I think, it''s far too low).

Art replies:

I am in a huge hurry so this might ramble; I apologize in advance. To answer your question: It varies depending upon one''s seniority. On average, an American Airlines flight attendant works about 12-16 days a month with about 8 to 10 nights away from home. Remember, crews spend many hours not only flying, but sitting around airports (unpaid) and dealing with the same hassles with connections as passengers do. Our on-duty time often runs 12-14 hours on domestic and more on international. F/As are not paid for any time the door of the aircraft is open, so when you board the airplane and see the flight attendants busily going about their duties, remember they are not being paid! If a f/a is junior, he/she might fly up to 21 days a month. If the f/a is very senior, he/she might be lucky enough to hold one of our rare bid lines that require only 10 or 11 days on duty. These bid lines are very, very rare and run extremely senior. Also, a full-time f/a flies about 80 hours a month nowadays (it used to be about 71) for less pay than in the past. Again, this is actual flying time; this does not count for the endless hours in airports or at the Days Inn in Tulsa. The job has lost a tremendous amount of its appeal and many of us have opted to return to school and just move on to new careers. We have seen our jobs adversely affected on a dramatic scale: Most layovers are in airport hotels (no longer downtown), pay rates have been slashed about 19%, vacations cut 33% across the board, insurance benefits radically cut, massive furloughs, etc...so when people like ''pricklyheat'' drone on about how overpaid f/as are, I just roll my eyes. He hasn''t a clue.
Hope this sheds some light on the job.

 

[Segue]

The best business model for FA's in Asia. Ever flown Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines? Unbelievable level of service. I'd rather be in Cathay economy that UA First Class. The difference is that these people are not making a career out of it, just something to do when one is young and out of college and looking for adventure. In most customer service businesses, people get burned out after 5 years unless they have the "service gene". I think CX attendants have to retire at 40 or something like that. After a couple of years doing what an FA does, what else is there to learn?

 

[Busdrvr]

"Now, my father used to ask me why United and AA didn''t put the pretty, young women on the trans-Pacific flights. It took me a lot of patience as I explained to him the seniority system, different cultural expectations and standards, etc..."

Federal law? UAL used to fire F/A''s when they got married, pregnant, or even chubby. The US GOVERNMENT stopped the practice.

 

[ArtTang]

Indeed the government did put an end to this...after class action lawsuits against the airlines. The f/as prevailed and won back-pay, seniority reinstatement rights, etc...and it wasn''t until just about 10 years ago that the airlines had to end its relentless harassment of f/as when the f/as exceeded the weight limits. Just to give you all an idea of how ridiculous the weight limits were: I am a 6'' tall man and my weight limit throughout training and well into the 1990s was 175 lbs! That''s right. If I weighed one pound over that, AA could reprimand and ultimately terminate me. That is one thing that has changed for the better.

 

[ArtTang]

Segue writes:
The best business model for FA's in Asia. Ever flown Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines? Unbelievable level of service. I'd rather be in Cathay economy that UA First Class. The difference is that these people are not making a career out of it, just something to do when one is young and out of college and looking for adventure. In most customer service businesses, people get burned out after 5 years unless they have the "service gene". I think CX attendants have to retire at 40 or something like that. After a couple of years doing what an FA does, what else is there to learn?

Art responds:

There are many reasons why Asian carriers excel in customer service. One of the most obvious is the Asian airlines have not been forced to cut back on basic amenities. Here in the good ole' US, passengers get upset with us when they ask for a blanket or a magazine and we apologize for not having any. This is hardly the f/a's fault. No matter how sympathetic I am and how much I apologize, I too frequently get the rolling eyes followed by the long sigh or a snide remark. People then turn around and say the f/as don't offer good customer service. The sad fact is, we have very little to offer nowadays: no magazines, no pillows, no blankets, no customer complaint forms (they're now online), etc...We get tired of having to apologize for the cutbacks because we'd love to be able to offer these things again. Now, I ADMIT THAT SOME COMPLAINTS ARE VALID!. I do not deny that a minority of f/as are jaded and should retire or quit because they are unpleasant or lazy (note: one will find such people in ANY industry), but the vast majority of my colleagues are professional, intelligent, and lots of fun.
Much has changed over the years: I started flying international back in 1986. We had flowers in the lavatories, meal choices, gifts for first class passengers, etc...Today, we have bare minimum. It is not how I would like to see it, that's for sure.
Another reason for which Asian carriers excel in customer service is cultural. My father is from Shanghai and I lived in Taiwan and Hong Kong as a boy and I still travel to China almost every year. Two of my brothers are married to Asian women. I can say with some knowledge and familiarity that the Asian culture lends itself to the woman catering to the man. Almost all f/as in Asia are female (except for the pursers and a few exceptions) and many are indeed forced to retire when they reach the ripe old age of 35 or get pregnant. Sound familiar? It ought to, because the US carriers were the same not too many years ago. Now, my father used to ask me why United and AA didn't put the pretty, young women on the trans-Pacific flights. It took a lot of patience as I explained to him the seniority system, different cultural expectations and standards, etc...after the Richard Reid shoe-bomber flight, he readily agreed that it was a good thing the crew was seasoned and knew what it was doing. Had it been a plane full a twenty-two year old beauty queens, would it have turned out as well? I seriously doubt it (no offense to the 22 year old beauty queens reading this!).
Segue also asks what can one learn after two years on the job? Well, it may not be obvious to him (or her), but I will refer to the above paragraph and he can figure it out from there. Again, temperance, vigilance, experience, and the wisdom gained with age count for a lot in this job. The most visible aspect of the job is serving a coke, but there is a bit more to it. Just ask any crash, heart attack, or hijack victim and he'll tell you so.




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