Why are the pilots worthy of a union representation?

[Keith]

Do the pilots and flight attendants at Delta have different CEO's, Presidents and other top executives? If pilots feel a need for a union and collective bargaining voice, not to mention the few other unionized work groups at Delta including newly unionized mechanics, why don't flight attendants.

Flight Attendant work groups at all major airlines consist of minorities: Women, Gays and Lesbians, not to mention other nationalities. We are a very diversified group where we as minorities make up the majority. And unfortunately in our society some feel that minorities should not have a voice. Well as an African-American gay male flight attendant, I want a voice. A voice in my future at the bargaining table. A legally binding contract.
Or are the Pilots, Dispatchers, Meteorologists, and Mechanics only worthy of the ability to negotiate their pay, benefits and work rules? Are they more important?

When Richard Anderson was approached to lead Delta, he first consulted with his lawyers to draft a legally binding document that would define his his pay, benefits, bonuses, and terms and conditions. This document is known as a "Contract". It was presented to the Delta Board of Directors and top shareholders. It's signed by himself, his lawyers and the lawyers representing Delta. Yes a "Contract". That word that makes management shutter, yet they have them.

So ask all of you, Why can't we?

 

[dapoes]

Do the pilots and flight attendants at Delta have different CEO's, Presidents and other top executives? If pilots feel a need for a union and collective bargaining voice, not to mention the few other unionized work groups at Delta including newly unionized mechanics, why don't flight attendants.

Flight Attendant work groups at all major airlines consist of minorities: Women, Gays and Lesbians, not to mention other nationalities. We are a very diversified group where we as minorities make up the majority. And unfortunately in our society some feel that minorities should not have a voice. Well as an African-American gay male flight attendant, I want a voice. A voice in my future at the bargaining table. A legally binding contract.
Or are the Pilots, Dispatchers, Meteorologists, and Mechanics only worthy of the ability to negotiate their pay, benefits and work rules? Are they more important?

When Richard Anderson was approached to lead Delta, he first consulted with his lawyers to draft a legally binding document that would define his his pay, benefits, bonuses, and terms and conditions. This document is known as a "Contract". It was presented to the Delta Board of Directors and top shareholders. It's signed by himself, his lawyers and the lawyers representing Delta. Yes a "Contract". That word that makes management shutter, yet they have them.

So ask all of you, Why can't we?

No worries, you'll have your chance. As soon as AFA stops making excuses and calls for a vote.

 

[Keith]

No worries, you'll have your chance. As soon as AFA stops making excuses and calls for a vote.

Gee that's all you've got?
Gosh, I was hoping to have an intellectual conversation with you.

 

[dapoes]

Gee that's all you've got?
Gosh, I was hoping to have an intellectual conversation with you.

What did you expect? There will be a vote so you'll have your chance just like the rest of us.

 

[Keith]

What did you expect? There will be a vote so you'll have your chance just like the rest of us.

Yes there will be a vote. And it will be a historical one, just like the one on November 4 2008. Change for America, and change for the "New Delta"

 

[DalMD88]

Do the pilots and flight attendants at Delta have different CEO's, Presidents and other top executives? If pilots feel a need for a union and collective bargaining voice, not to mention the few other unionized work groups at Delta including newly unionized mechanics, why don't flight attendants.

Flight Attendant work groups at all major airlines consist of minorities: Women, Gays and Lesbians, not to mention other nationalities. We are a very diversified group where we as minorities make up the majority. And unfortunately in our society some feel that minorities should not have a voice. Well as an African-American gay male flight attendant, I want a voice. A voice in my future at the bargaining table. A legally binding contract.
Or are the Pilots, Dispatchers, Meteorologists, and Mechanics only worthy of the ability to negotiate their pay, benefits and work rules? Are they more important?

When Richard Anderson was approached to lead Delta, he first consulted with his lawyers to draft a legally binding document that would define his his pay, benefits, bonuses, and terms and conditions. This document is known as a "Contract". It was presented to the Delta Board of Directors and top shareholders. It's signed by himself, his lawyers and the lawyers representing Delta. Yes a "Contract". That word that makes management shutter, yet they have them.

So ask all of you, Why can't we?

The simple answer is because the pilots choose to have union. It has nothing to do with minorities, women, gays, martians or anything else. BTW the combined mechanic workforce is not unionized. I doubt it will be either. Most of the old DL mechanics and even most of the old NW mechanics are against the union. I personally don't agree, but I can't vote for everybody.

Now as for your opinion as why you are not represented, you are entitled to believe what ever. I really hate the it's because I'll gay argument. I really could care less about your sex life. I know many other mechanics do have a hang up, but I really don't care. I do have a problem with you throwing this out as why you don't have union reperesentation. For this to be a valid argument all the union airlines would have to have less gay FA's than DL. I've never seen the data, but I doubt there is much difference.

So if you what to complain about gay marriage rights, I'll come to your side. If you want a union, get out there and get the other FA's to sign card and then vote.

 

[Keith]

The simple answer is because the pilots choose to have union. It has nothing to do with minorities, women, gays, martians or anything else. BTW the combined mechanic workforce is not unionized. I doubt it will be either. Most of the old DL mechanics and even most of the old NW mechanics are against the union. I personally don't agree, but I can't vote for everybody.

Now as for your opinion as why you are not represented, you are entitled to believe what ever. I really hate the it's because I'll gay argument. I really could care less about your sex life. I know many other mechanics do have a hang up, but I really don't care. I do have a problem with you throwing this out as why you don't have union reperesentation. For this to be a valid argument all the union airlines would have to have less gay FA's than DL. I've never seen the data, but I doubt there is much difference.

So if you what to complain about gay marriage rights, I'll come to your side. If you want a union, get out there and get the other FA's to sign card and then vote.

I guess you missed the point I was trying to make, so I'll pitch again. The reason I brought up the whole majority is made up of minorities is because for some reason Delta management seems to not want to give the same job security and respect as it does to it's predominantly male pilot group than it does to it's predominantly female FA group. I included myself in this because gay men in society are recognized as a minority as well. And we all know that we (gays) make up the next largest in the FA group.

Delta has been around a long time with roots deep in the South with some of that old school teaching.
And no I don't need you by my side on the gay marriage issue. Now that's one contract I can do without.

Now let's look at the signs of these times. And it's just like I tell a lot of my Delta counterparts whenever I see them, the Delta all of knew is no longer. Your CEO, I mean our CEO and our CLT now call it the New Delta. And I will tell you this, things AIN'T gonna be the same. Lot's of Northwest Management, more than you realize, is now at the New Delta. So lord help us all. Not only that, Doug Steeland is now part of the New Delta.

Back in the 80's there was this airlines executive named Frank Lorenzo. This man did everything he could to bust the union and take everything from the good employees of Eastern Airlines. Robbed them of there respect and left them hung out to dry. then he tried to the same with Continental by breaking apart the unions and rob them of there pay to his pockets fatter. And guess who were there, right at his side the entire time giving him legal advice on how to do it successfully. Ours truly, Richard Anderson and Doug Steeland.
So lets get ready for the rides of our careers. If we still have them. Thanks to out sourcing. And thanks to the AFA who went to court then negotiated it and got in writing. US based flight attendants are protected from out sourcing that keeps Northwest from hiring cheap labor in Asia to fly all of our great trips. Which by the way was Andersons idea that he passed off to Steeland when he left. And it's on the books again if there's nothing to protect us.

WAKE UP PEOPLE.

 

[dapoes]

I guess you missed the point I was trying to make, so I'll pitch again. The reason I brought up the whole majority is made up of minorities is because for some reason Delta management seems to not want to give the same job security and respect as it does to it's predominantly male pilot group than it does to it's predominantly female FA group. I included myself in this because gay men in society are recognized as a minority as well. And we all know that we (gays) make up the next largest in the FA group.

Huh? :blink: You do know its up to the employees that choose union representation. Not management. Were you not around during last may's election at DAL?

Delta has been around a long time with roots deep in the South with some of that old school teaching.

So whats you point? What are you trying to infer? Again its up to the employees that choose union representation.

Now let's look at the signs of these times. And it's just like I tell a lot of my Delta counterparts whenever I see them, the Delta all of knew is no longer. Your CEO, I mean our CEO and our CLT now call it the New Delta. And I will tell you this, things AIN'T gonna be the same. Lot's of Northwest Management, more than you realize, is now at the New Delta. So lord help us all. Not only that, Doug Steeland is now part of the New Delta.

Back in the 80's there was this airlines executive named Frank Lorenzo. This man did everything he could to bust the union and take everything from the good employees of Eastern Airlines. Robbed them of there respect and left them hung out to dry. then he tried to the same with Continental by breaking apart the unions and rob them of there pay to his pockets fatter. And guess who were there, right at his side the entire time giving him legal advice on how to do it successfully. Ours truly, Richard Anderson and Doug Steeland.
So lets get ready for the rides of our careers. If we still have them. Thanks to out sourcing. And thanks to the AFA who went to court then negotiated it and got in writing. US based flight attendants are protected from out sourcing that keeps Northwest from hiring cheap labor in Asia to fly all of our great trips. Which by the way was Andersons idea that he passed off to Steeland when he left. And it's on the books again if there's nothing to protect us.

WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Sounds like the same old scripts from the AFA playbook. Relax there tiger, the vote will come soon enough, as soon as AFA stops making excuses.

PS your not going to find much DAL FA's here, mostly just Ramp and Mechs it seems.

 

[Keith]

Huh? :blink: You do know its up to the employees that choose union representation. Not management. Were you not around during last may's election at DAL?


So whats you point? What are you trying to infer? Again its up to the employees that choose union representation.


Sounds like the same old scripts from the AFA playbook. Relax there tiger, the vote will come soon enough, as soon as AFA stops making excuses.

PS your not going to find much DAL FA's here, mostly just Ramp and Mechs it seems.

You know what I'm trying to infer so don't play dumb.
And trust me there's FA on here, their just scared to speak up. They're afraid DL management may find out who they are and treat them different. Intimidating them if they start to think on there own.

Bottom line though, THE "NEW DELTA" WILL BE A UNIONIZED WORK FORCE.
Every group that was unionized at Pre-Merger NWA will also be at the "NEW DELTA.
I know it may be hard for you to accept now, but you will eventually.

 

[FWAAA]

Bottom line though, THE "NEW DELTA" WILL BE A UNIONIZED WORK FORCE.
Every group that was unionized at Pre-Merger NWA will also be at the "NEW DELTA.
I know it may be hard for you to accept now, but you will eventually.

You may be correct, but I doubt the mechanics will be unionized for a while. From media reports, NWA has only about 1,000 mechanics compared to the several thousand at DL. Many of them are former scabs and are represented by AMFA only because they didn't bother to try to decertify it when the strike finally settled and some of the strikers returned. My hope is that the scabs can be cleansed from the rolls at the new Delta.

 

[Kev3188]

Gee that's all you've got?
Gosh, I was hoping to have an intellectual conversation with you.

Rookie mistake.

So if you what to complain about gay marriage rights, I'll come to your side. If you want a union, get out there and get the other FA's to sign card and then vote.

Well put, DALMD88.

Every group deserves to be treated like the professionals they (we) are. If it takes being unionized, so be it (I'm ardently pro-union, BTW).

It has nothing to do with age, race or orientation.

PS your not going to find much DAL FA's here, mostly just Ramp and Mechs it seems.

Actually, I would say it's the other way around...

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Relax there tiger, the vote will come soon enough, as soon as AFA stops making excuses.

PS your not going to find much DAL FA's here, mostly just Ramp and Mechs it seems.

Correct, dapoes...the vote will come soon enough so I suggest you take your own advice and r e l a x. Today was, I believe, the first step. As soon as PRESIDENT Obama replaces Ms. Van de Water of the NMB, we will be on our way to a vote. I think it will be a close one. I also offer this advice (from the many NW f/a's I speak with) to those anti-union DL folks: just because you chat up NW f/a's and they say they are unhappy with AFA, does NOT mean they are willing to go without union representation. Many believe that it is a necessity to not only have contractual protection, but also to have a union in place in order to, if necessary, move on and find a better one.

Finally, I would say there are about as many DL f/a's here as that anti-union DL f/a site that a gentleman caller so inappropriately plugged during last Thursday's Inflite conference call. I will say this: I was somewhat impressed that Ms. Smith basically cut him off and said the conference call was not the time for the union/anti-union debate.

 

[dapoes]

You know what I'm trying to infer so don't play dumb.
And trust me there's FA on here, their just scared to speak up. They're afraid DL management may find out who they are and treat them different. Intimidating them if they start to think on there own.

Bottom line though, THE "NEW DELTA" WILL BE A UNIONIZED WORK FORCE.
Every group that was unionized at Pre-Merger NWA will also be at the "NEW DELTA.
I know it may be hard for you to accept now, but you will eventually.

Ok...you go get em tiger...rawr!

 

[dapoes]

Correct, dapoes...the vote will come soon enough so I suggest you take your own advice and r e l a x. Today was, I believe, the first step. As soon as PRESIDENT Obama replaces Ms. Van de Water of the NMB, we will be on our way to a vote.

Oh yes I forgot, AFA fails, blame NMB or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Delta Technician]

Do the pilots and flight attendants at Delta have different CEO's, Presidents and other top executives? If pilots feel a need for a union and collective bargaining voice, not to mention the few other unionized work groups at Delta including newly unionized mechanics, why don't flight attendants.

Flight Attendant work groups at all major airlines consist of minorities: Women, Gays and Lesbians, not to mention other nationalities. We are a very diversified group where we as minorities make up the majority. And unfortunately in our society some feel that minorities should not have a voice. Well as an African-American gay male flight attendant, I want a voice. A voice in my future at the bargaining table. A legally binding contract.
Or are the Pilots, Dispatchers, Meteorologists, and Mechanics only worthy of the ability to negotiate their pay, benefits and work rules? Are they more important?

When Richard Anderson was approached to lead Delta, he first consulted with his lawyers to draft a legally binding document that would define his his pay, benefits, bonuses, and terms and conditions. This document is known as a "Contract". It was presented to the Delta Board of Directors and top shareholders. It's signed by himself, his lawyers and the lawyers representing Delta. Yes a "Contract". That word that makes management shutter, yet they have them.

So ask all of you, Why can't we?

How can anyone really answer your question? Are you asking as a FA or an African American gay male flight attendant? From your post what I've seen you have done is taken what is suppose to be a group as a whole and actually divided yourself into a weaker (in numbers) group. There are other groups you can join to be heard as a smaller entity but I don't think it is a good idea to divide what is suppose to be strength in numbers. I am in no means in support of organized labor at this time but if I was I would think your idea is disatrous.

Signed
A representative of the WMSTA (White Male Straight Technicians Association)