Why The 407 Is The Superior Aircraft

[407 Driver]

T-Rexs .....where did you get all your 407 Experience ? You've only been with xxxxxxx for a year or two, so you weren't around when they had that sad 407 that COULDN'T tow a bird? Was it the aircraft or the Pilot ???? For the life of me, I can't see why a 407 isn't capable of towing a Bird, it just ain't that tough of a job? Please explain why not?

I wonder why company's like Alpine, Niagra, NAS, or Tasman can run 407's relatively trouble free, and companies like Airborne and xxxxxxx couldn't ? Hmmmm?

Bandaid, I took 6 month off this forum so MAGGIE could pass me in total posts,

He's #1 GO MAG GO

 

[407 Driver]

Pitch link, who may that Large Ski operator be?
The largest HeliSki operator in Canada, (CMH) already went that route, as the B2 couldn't deliver the required product. At $12,000 per seat per week for private skiing, that extra seat in a 407 equates to a 33% increase in weekly revenues. (2 guides, 4 paying seats Vs 3)
I'm guessing the Ski company is the second biggest, serviced by an Island based company near Vancouver?

I have heard that a 407 is going to ski near Nelson BC this winter, I haven't confirmed who, or for how long, but it must be either NAS, E&B or Tasman....unless the boys from Gimli are comming west :unsure: ?. The only other one out here is Omega, but I can's see Beaker going somewhere cold B)

 

[Pitch Link]

Howdy 407,

From what I understand Last Frontier is looking pretty hard at 407's. The present operator has been sniffing around for machines. Should be no problems for that country. Highest drop off is only 9000ft. I wonder if TLH will go the same route. That means 5 machines in total. HHHmmmmm interesting.

 

[407 Driver]

The 350's (BA, B1, B2) are great Ski aircraft, no problems ....BUT .. the 407 can do it better, faster, with 1 more paying passenger and with more fuel.

T-Rex, I thought that you flew Last Frontier? Fuxley (lead guide) is in strong with his ex-CMH buddies, so he'd have got the scoop from them on the 407. Is Ralphie searching for another 407...since his last one was repo'd

 

[MagSeal]

407D....I don't want to be number one, but as luck would have it, two prolific posters (you and CTD) dropped off the face of CAaviation, and it was inevitable that I'd pass you guys.

Please, go on a posting spree and at least catch up to me. If Bleedvalve can conjure up a couple hundred posts in a little over two weeks, you can too.

As for the 407 and skiing, I'm sure the 130 is trying to pry into that market. I think some weight issues need to be resolved yet, but don't worry....the 407's won't walk away with a huge percentage of the market for long.

 

[407 Driver]

How are you (EC) going to reslove those "weight" issues? is there a lighter grade of Plastic available to build the thing?

What about performance? how does the thing handle altitude? got a flight manual handy? The Gazelle Fenstrom was ineffective at altitude, is this new age one any better? So many questions, so few answers

 

[T-rex]

407,

Hey nice to hear from you again, The 407 problems where well before my time here, like i said it was a first generation model, had little tech support , and didn't like the bird dragging below it, not much for fuel range! That was moons ago. (the 407 is a real good machine, don't tell maggie)

Last Frontier? Us? No more, we have much better places to be doing our business. Going to be busy in a market that where we are good at! That heliskiing was a trial, we are a production LL company, and that is what we are good at and can make money at! We'll leave the heliskiing for you!

 

[widgeon]

Unless otherwise specified, the following performance figures and charts are values obtained with new production engine and are given for a clean standard aircraft, in zero wind at sea level, standard atmosphere conditions.

http://www.eurocopter.com/ec130/fperformances.html

Marketing figures but hopefully accurate.

SO which has the better OEI performance

PS; 3 for sale on the EC web site any offers ?.

 

[MagSeal]

the weight issues will be solved with using young, low time pilots VS old, high time pilots.

the logic is simple, the young guys are broke, and inexperienced, therefore, can't afford to eat, and in a nutshell will be much lighter than the older guys who can afford trips to australia and hawaii. I'm guessing on average a 100lbs or so will be available.

And I believe the fenestron or "Fan in tail" concept has been adopted by Bell on their prototype 407. Which I hear they have been working on since '72 :blink: . So if it was their idea and EC stole it, it's Bells poorly designed concept. If it's the other way around and EC designed it, and Bell stole it, they obviously think it has merits....

 

[Deep Throat II]

Good Ole Heli- Skiing one of the few if only markets where a customer who pays peanuts and flys less than 3hrs a day has so much influence on our industry, they dictate pilots, tours and type of aircraft flown , I shudder to think what we would do if we pandered to forestry and mining clients the way we do the HUNS!

T-rex no wonder you don't want anything to do with skiing anymore after all, Ralphie was getting those B2's for probably what 407Driver rents out a jetranger for.

 

[firehawk]

Deep Throat.
Heli-skiing isnt for everyone, you either love it or hate it, The same with seismic I love skiing and hate seismic. I work for one of the few heli-ski customers where first our customer does'nt dictate the pilot and the tour, Second I fly more then three hours a day skiing,Third, The aircraft arent given away. When I decide we go home because of what ever reason it maybe, we go home, I have never had a problem with my customer getting pissy with me for the decisions. As for other companies skiing. I can't speak for them. I believe everyone has a nitch and will find what works for them. What I think you discribed in your post was the siesmic industry.

 

[Deep Throat II]

Sorry to generalize Firehawk, yes the same can be said of the Seismic Industry, unfortunately both have been tainted by a certain group of operators who ruin it for the rest, I have in the past worked great Ski and Seismic contracts but have found as of late that they are few and far between. Who knows what the solution is for this?.

DTII

 

[DGP]

407 Driver....the boys in Gimli are going West to heliski....haven't heard who is doing the driving yet...my guess is probably Kipky or Jenecki...they both had worked for Custom when Derrick was there...will give them a call and find out...

 

[407 Driver]

Excellent DGP, I talked with them several times as they were setting up the aircraft. Seem like great guys. If I can be of assistance, tell them to call.

PS I know the word NO in most HUN languages, could be helpful to them...

Non,
Nyet,
Nein,
erhalten Sie weg von meinem Hubschrauber (get away from my helicopter )You Dumbkoff !

 

[Deep Throat II]

Good one 407 but the most important safety speech any ski pilot must know, how do you say no clothes on in the Hottub. Aufweidersane