Will US AIRWAYS outbid Southwest for AirTran?

[Travelpro72]

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA Anyone that says, 'Southwest won't' needs to think about that statement. There will be a HUGE business shift within Airtran as it's taken over by Southwest. Southwest on the ATL-CLT route will be much different than Airtran. Also you'll soon have Southwest with a huge presence in ATL. Think that won't affect US in CLT? No? ok......

 

[usa1]

This will have a big effect on US Airways ..... as well as Delta going forward.

At Southwest's recent media day, Executive Vice President Bob Jordan said that once a proposed merger with AirTran(AAI_) is complete, Southwest can offer two dozen new destinations out of Atlanta to cities that already have a Southwest presence but do not have AirTran service from Atlanta.

"We have the opportunity on some of those routes to drop fares 40%," Jordan said, according to The Dallas Morning News. "It's almost a no-lose if you can go into a market and not only ... offer a great product, but ... bring fares down 40%, stimulate the market [and] provide a lot of competition."

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10905088/1/southwest-wants-to-fight.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[USFlyer]

I love reading these posts. We conducted an internal study and found WN is lower on price only about 25-30% of the time. What WN has going for it is an incredible marketing machine and admitedly lower walk-up fares. Otherwise, prices on almost every route served by mainline metal by at least one carrier are already extremely competitive nationwide. Let's not forget that the carriers are making money now in a still slow economy, so I think everyone is much better positioned now to handle competitive landscape changes.

 

[IberiaMAL]

This will have a big effect on US Airways ..... as well as Delta going forward.



http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10905088/1/southwest-wants-to-fight.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

Atlanta-Charlotte can not support ~40 daily flights. US Airways has a 600 flight hub, Delta a 1000 flight hub. Neither are going to back down. And I'm assuming a lot of the flights Atlanta-Charlotte have are connections because Atlanta is just a hop, skip, and stone throw down I85...



I want to say Southwest would/could add Oklahoma City, Little Rock, Nashville, Austin, Louisville, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Oakland, Tulsa, Omaha, Albuquerque, Birmingham, Jackson, and maybe some others from Atlanta that Airtran does not serve from Atlanta.



Do you honestly think adding these routes - most of what will be O&D - will effect Charlotte all that much?



US doesn't even fly Chalotte - Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Omaha, Albuquerque, Oakland, Salt Lake City, nor Jackson to Charlotte. I wouldn't be surprised to see these flights added after some more Concourse E expansion. My point is, WN is going to be connecting WN strongholds to ATL. Most of which US does not even serve.

 

[IberiaMAL]

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA Anyone that says, 'Southwest won't' needs to think about that statement. There will be a HUGE business shift within Airtran as it's taken over by Southwest. Southwest on the ATL-CLT route will be much different than Airtran. Also you'll soon have Southwest with a huge presence in ATL. Think that won't affect US in CLT? No? ok......

Let me rephrase. Charlotte - Atlanta can not sustain 30+ flights I wouldn't think... Something will have to give. Either the airline with a 600 daily flight connecting hub, the airline with a 1000 daily flight connecting hub, or the predominately O&D carrier...


😉 My guess is that WN will absolutely not start an hourly shuttle between these 2 cities.


I would like to say WN puts hourly Atlanta shuttles on Raleigh, Chicago, Nashville and Baltimore long before Charlotte.

 

[usa1]

Don't forget, as far as CLT is concerned .... flights out of GSO and GSP would pull O&D out of CLT as well. Very close by?

For the record, IM pulling for US Airways here ...just not with my head in the sand! Hopefully mgt has already started planning a response. US Airways is in much better shape than when WN attacked in BWI and PHL. I think this is a much larger attack though.

 

[IberiaMAL]

Don't forget, as far as CLT is concerned .... flights out of GSO and GSP would pull O&D out of CLT as well. Very close by?

For the record, IM pulling for US Airways here ...just not with my head in the sand! Hopefully mgt has already started planning a response. US Airways is in much better shape than when WN attacked in BWI and PHL. I think this is a much larger attack though.

GSP will steal Charlotte "O&D" that already travel to ATL for cheaper fares and GSO will steal Charlotte "O&D" that already travel to RDU for lower fares.



Those around Gastonia/South West Charlotte who already drive to ATL for cheaper fares will just opt for GSP and those in North East Charlotte/Concord who already drive to RDU will just opt for GSO.



I saw on the news in June or July that Charlotte had some of the most expensive fares in the country and that a lot of Charlotte passengers drive to other cities for lower fares. The city that most Charlotteans drove to for lower fares was Atlanta followed by Raleigh.



🙂


Fares will be cheap enough out of Charlotte on ATL/CLT if WN comes in with a lot of flights, you mine as well just hop on WN from Charlotte to Atlanta and then connect on to the world... It will probably be just as cheap as driving to other cities...


(Shouldn't the WN effect at Charlotte draw passengers to Charlotte anyway and not to GSO/GSP?)

 

[usa1]

(Shouldn't the WN effect at Charlotte draw passengers to Charlotte anyway and not to GSO/GSP?)

IM not sure, but I don't think so. Southwest can't get enough space in CLT to do much damage. BUT if Southwest runs flights out of CLT, GSP and GSO to their strong holds in BWI, ATL, and maybe PHL with connections beyond. CLT O&D might start driving to GSO or GSP when WN space from CLT is limited. Basically using three airports to triple their flights in and out of the market. GSP and GSO are so close to CLT.

Also passengers that currently drive to Charlotte from GSP and GSO for the convenience of a non-stop flight might think twice if WN offers lower fares and free bags out of their local airport.

If US Airways is pro-active we might be able to discourage WN some. Unfortunately a merger with another carrier will probably be the solution.

Southwest in ATL may be "shock and aw" for US and DL. Time will tell???

 

[BoeingBoy]

One thing is for sure - anything that lowers yields at US' highest yielding hub will hurt US.

Jim

 

[john john]

Southwest can't get enough space in CLT to do much damage.

WN usually gets way they want when it come to real-estate

convenience of a non-stop flight might think twice if WN offers lower fares and free bags out of their local airport.

And don’t forget no change fees
and no RJ's DH-8's at WN
WN is also getting WiFi on all planes
and a soon-to-be-revamped frequent flier program to attract business travelers

 

[IberiaMAL]

WN usually gets way they want when it come to real-estate

Jerry Orr seems to be very very pro-US Airways. I highly doubt WN will get what they want when it comes to real-estate here in Charlotte.


Why bite the hands that feed you?

 

[john john]

Jerry Orr seems to be very very pro-US Airways. I highly doubt WN will get what they want when it comes to real-estate here in Charlotte.


Why bite the hands that feed you?

I have seen WN take large bites out of US for years

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jerry Orr seems to be very very pro-US Airways. I highly doubt WN will get what they want when it comes to real-estate here in Charlotte.

There's only a few available gates in CLT anyway - the rest are leased to carriers. If FL has it's own exclusive use gate it would obviously become WN's (if FL subleases/rents per use it's a different story). I think there are 2-3 available gates on the north (back side) of D-Con that could be available for lease, or at least use. I can't see WN wanting more than 2-4 gates initially in CLT anyway. That would give them the capacity of having as many as 20-40 flights/day as long as they can get exclusive use leases. The question to me is whether they could work out a deal to get them on A-Con which would be better operationally or would they be on D-Con.

Jim

 

[IberiaMAL]

I have seen WN take large bites out of US for years

If Charlotte wanted WN here, airport authorities could have easily added room for WN or any other carriers; however, it is quite obvious Jerry Orr favors US Airways.

And that is no small feat. He has built Charlotte/Douglas into a top 10 airport in a top 30 market, expanding the hub by making the right investments to support US Airways even as the airline has teetered on, fallen into and risen out of bankruptcy.

Read more: What Jerry Orr means to region | Charlotte Business Journal

If WN even wanted to try to take a large bite out of US in Charlotte, they would have to have support of Airport officials. Jerry Orr has been making investments to support US Airways. Do you think it's a wise investment in US Airways to allow WN to get a decent number of gates?



Now CVG. That's another city of interest to see WN in.


WN in CLT will probably be similar to it's operations in MSP. I wonder why WN currently has no flights into CVG... WN currently has 2 focus cities in the southeast. BNA and RDU. WN currently has 29 daily flights at RDU to 11 cities. And that's with a dead American hub and the Southwest effects drawing people from GSO, CLT, ILM and probably AVL.

Now that WN is opening up GSO, CLT, and AVL, The Southwest effect in RDU should be decreased, eh? Because us GSO/CLT folks now have our home cities of CLT, GSO, and AVL + us down here in Charlotte have ATL and GSP also for the WN effect 😉


So. I figure, if this Luv effect is in full swing in RDU, then RDU should lose a lot of people as they basically opened up 4 cities in which a lot of folks would have otherwise drove to RDU for the Luv effect.


:unsure: So, if WN can only sustain 29 daily flights at RDU with people all over the Carolinas migrating to RDU for Luv, then I assume there is no way Charlotte will have 29+ flights from Luv.


Not to mention RDU is no longer an American hub. RDU and CLT for the most part have the same metro population. Charlotte is home to the, what, 4th largest airline hub in the world with airport officials who favor the hub airline, competing against an airline who is making record profits and very strong and entrenched carrier in Charlotte. Quite different than RDU who would love to see WN add some more flights, and airport who has no airline hubbed there, etc.


At RDU, WN has 1X flight to PHX, 1X to LAS, 4X PHL, 1XDEN, 4X MDW among others.

I doubt WN would start CLT - PHX, LAS, or DEN.

If WN starts CLT - PHL, I bet it wouldn't be as high as 4X. Perhaps 2X?

I see WN's CLT schedule like this at best:


5X ATL
3X BWI
2X MCO
2X MDW
1X BNA
1X STL
1X TPA



at MSP, WN's current Schedule is this:

8X MDW
4X DEN
2X PHX
2X STL



WN will bring cheaper fares for passengers from CLT trying to get to OKC and other cities US Does not service whose only option at the moment is Delta via ATL.

That would give them the capacity of having as many as 20-40 flights/day as long as they can get exclusive use leases.

-BoeingBoy

RDU - a very similar sized city to Charlotte - does not even host 30 WN flights.

Not to mention, Charlotteans drive to RDU to fly WN. Charlotte pax will have the luxury to pick between flying WN out of GSO, GSP, RDU, CLT, ATL, and AVL...



Do you also think WN is going to add 30/40 daily flights in CVG and other cities WN inherited from FL? Man, they must have a ton of underutilized aircraft laying around. :unsure:


I see around 20X flights at CLT for WN at most for now. Maybe that will change in the future. But as of now...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do you also think WN is going to add 30/40 daily flights in CVG and other cities WN inherited from FL? Man, they must have a ton of underutilized aircraft laying around. :unsure:

Read what I wrote. With 2-4 gates, WN could add as many as 20-40 flights/day at CLT. I never said how many they would add although I feel pretty confident they'll have more than FL currently has. That's because WN can utilize a gate for up to 10 flights/day, but they don't always do it.

Jim