5TH week vacation coming back?

[WorldTraveler]

hey, hey... none of that tr789 donkey stuff. It's not true, Kev.

I don't understand how you can say DL can offer at-will terms and take them all away tomorrow but they are immediately going to sign a contract that would continue to offer the same terms that they could take away tomorrow.
You can't take a program that you acknowledge is at will and expect that you are going to turn into a contract just because you want to put it in writing. The two halves don't logically connect, with all due respect.

The whole reason why DL is being as generous as they are right now is because **they** get the credit for being generous and as you note could easily decide next year that business conditions have changed and they can't be as generous in 2015.
Carriers with CBAs won't do what DL has done even if what DL has done ends on Dec 31, 2013 because they aren't going to share the benefit for any gains with anyone. They just won't give them unless those benefits are pried from their cold fingers in spasms.
The beauty of DL's approach is that they can keep putting the pressure on other carriers by creating expectations among the other carrier's employees about how good it could be.
DL just happens to be running a good enough business to make it happen.

Do you not think that WN has enjoyed putting pressure on other carriers via their wage and benefits programs?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I don't understand how you can say DL can offer at-will terms and take them all away tomorrow but they are immediately going to sign a contract that would continue to offer the same terms that they could take away tomorrow.
You can't take a program that you acknowledge is at will and expect that you are going to turn into a contract just because you want to put it in writing. The two halves don't logically connect, with all due respect.

The whole reason why DL is being as generous as they are right now is because **they** get the credit for being generous and as you note could easily decide next year that business conditions have changed and they can't be as generous in 2015.

I agree with you in that no company will lock in long term agreement terms in a very volatile marketplace. But it does take 2 to make an agreement.

However, there are many avenues unions and companies can take to adjust for that. Mid-term bargaining is a perfect example. If the union or company ask turns out to be low compared to actual results, then they have to revisit.

It is done all the time.

 

[TDR1502C]

Remember kids, you don't want to be underpaid and undercompensated like the pilots and dispatchers in today's airline environment.

 

[WorldTraveler]

last I checked it is the DL pilots who have thrown out their leadership because too many of the pilots think they aren't making big enough gains... kind of shoots down the theory that a union can extract whatever gains it wants even from the healthiest airline the western world has known in quite some time.

 

[Kev3188]

Remember kids, you don't want to be underpaid and undercompensated like the pilots and dispatchers in today's airline environment.

Who wants to be treated like a professional when you can have things like free T-shirts & chili cook offs?

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's all about the pay and DL people's peers aren't getting that in anywhere near the quantities that DL is doing for its peeps.

btw, successful companies do t-shirts and cook-offs too. some even do block parties.

they are of course voluntary yet thousands of DL employees turn out for them. sometimes the boss even serves the beer.

 

[Kev3188]

Great. Good for them. Cult meetings are usually well attended too.

Still not a substitute for a real seat at the table.

 

[WorldTraveler]

people care about what gets put into their bank account. If they can get what they want while letting someone else talk, they are content with that type of arrangement.

I am all for seeking out solutions to problems that really exist. A union solution doesn't improve anything that DL employees don't already have. If it did, they would be rushing to the ballot boxes to vote in unions.

If a major DL employee group votes in a union, I'd be delighted to take you out for lunch - or send you a gift certificate so you can do it on your own if you would prefer.

Results are what matter - to DL employees and to those of us who have debated how the industry would be shaped.

 

[700UW]

It improves specific language like scope, pay, benefits etc. Things cant changed at the whim of the company.

 

[737823]

It improves specific language like scope, pay, benefits etc. Things cant changed at the whim of the company.

Or you can have a union roll over when a company is solidly profitable like UA and gut scope protection to seven stations, increase health care premiums, give up work rules and then tout the agreement as "monumental" like Ira and Sito did.

Josh

 

[737823]

Why is the UA vote taking so long? Is the GL determining ballots in eligible to get this POS through so they can begin collecting sCO dues?

Voting Results

We realize all members are anxiously awaiting the final results of the ratification voting held today. While the voting has been completed, the official counting of cast ballots in each local lodge has not.
District 141 will wait until all local lodges have reported their results, and all participating members have had their voice heard before releasing the results of this important vote.
We will post, without delay, the final determination of our membership as soon as we receive all results.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

They're out. All CBAs were ratified... 141 claims 65% turnout (looks like T5's concerns about voter apathy were on the mark).

 

[metopower]

last i checked the Leadership was NOT thrown out because they had not asked for greater gains. They were thrown out because their idea of negotiations was to posture them selves against the company not with the company. They were from the north side and their experiences drove them to posture themselves in that manner.Majority rules and their missread of the pilot group cost them their positions.By the way the last contract was PRESENTED not negotiated then voted upon by the group.It came out of left field and was too good to reject but ofcourse there were some who voted against.

 

[Kev3188]

last I checked it is the DL pilots who have thrown out their leadership because too many of the pilots think they aren't making big enough gains... .

 
...And now let's hear from an "actual DL employee"...
 
 

last i checked the Leadership was NOT thrown out because they had not asked for greater gains. 

 
Oh my.

 

[WorldTraveler]

So r u saying meto that a confrontational style of labor relations was typical of NW...exactly what I have said for 5 years?