A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[ThirdSeatHero]

Fair enough (although you can loose the name calling). I am currently a line mechanic at United Airlines. I am and have always been involved in the Union and have been a steward most of my career. I have never served or been part of any executive board nor have I ever held an officer position for any of the three Unions including the current one. I do not think they would have me any way. I support Unionism, but mostly support the right to speak out against your leadership. Of the three Unions I have belonged to, none can be categorized as perfect. The IAM disappointed many, and AMFA simply shocked us. We expected so much more, but all we got was petty fighting between the locals. It was not long before we had enough and overwhelmingly voted in our third Union. Many of my co-workers were not super excited about the Teamsters, but so far they have proven to be the most worthwhile. My posts, while you may not like them, are true first hand and true accounts of what I have experienced.

As an other United mechanic, I'll disagree with this. The teamsters lied their way onto the UAL property, period.

They used the NWA situation to drum up fear on UAL, and coupled that with a slew of promises that either never materialized or were outright lies from the start.

You're timing in appearing on this board coincides with the ibt sniffing around American, as such I'd wager you're either a teamster BA, Chief Steward, or Airline Division rep.

Rest assured, the lies you spread at UAL in 2007-2008 as well as your failures as representatives, will follow you to any teamster drive attempt at American.

 

[Anomaly]

A TWU Sympathizer calling AMFA a company Union.

That's funny!

So AMFA has the highest paid AMT's in the transportation industry.
TWU has the lowesty paid AMT's in the transporatation industry.

SO if not for the likes of the TWU Airline Management would gladly pay more?

And AA Management spent over $500,000.00 to defend the TWU during the last AMFA organizing campaign.

And you claim AMFA was created and funded by airline management? Wow that takes the cake, you win.

Since were all telling jokes here, I have another funny one. AMFA is not the highest paid, you forgot about the Teamsters UPS contract. Oh yeah, they do not count because they are cargo and part of the "transportation" industry. It is funny however when negotiations roll around, folks like you all of a sudden remember UPS and want to compare wages. It is also funny that when folks like you start talking about the great AMFA high wage contracts you forget to mention it was the Teamsters who negotiated that contract also. SWA mechanics have been at the top of the people transportation side of the airlines for years before AMFA. Funny how you forget to mention that.

 

[DNTULSA]

Hi anomaly,

Are you an old twu forum suckee under a different name, or a new twu suckee desperate to protect his cushy union job?

 

[Anomaly]

As an other United mechanic, I'll disagree with this. The teamsters lied their way onto the UAL property, period.

They used the NWA situation to drum up fear on UAL, and coupled that with a slew of promises that either never materialized or were outright lies from the start.

You're timing in appearing on this board coincides with the ibt sniffing around American, as such I'd wager you're either a teamster BA, Chief Steward, or Airline Division rep.

Rest assured, the lies you spread at UAL in 2007-2008 as well as your failures as representatives, will follow you to any teamster drive attempt at American.

And you must be one of the many who could not buy his way in to office? There is another guy in Denver with your same sad story who too is mad because he was passed over. Look, nobody lied to anyone. NWA really happened in case you didn't know. It was a political election, one side won, one side lost. End of story. There are still many who believed Bush only won because election authorities in Florida lied about the chads, or those who believed Obama won because he lied about his place of birth. Truth is, your side lost and you can not swallow it.

So I am betting since the IBT lied and you are so against what they did to get on property, you refused the $11K signing bonus? That was an option you know? And I assume since then you have said no thank you to the pay raise and increased benefits we have gotten since then? The IBT has been the only one to successfully negotiated a contract here at UAL. I may not agree with them entirely, but I do not believe they have lead us to a darker path either.

As for my appearance, absolutely true. It does coincide with the rumors about the Teamsters moving on AA. You started posts and I read them. I have been reading these for years and find out many things this way. This subject however was one that I felt knowledgeable enough about jumping in to the discussion. Now that I am in, and have you all reduced to name calling, I'm hanging out for a while.

 

[TWU informer]

Mr Pit, or is it Bull? I am not sure what you are asking. You lost me. The point of my post is to display the overwhelming odds against ALL of us airline employed mechanics. The passengers main concern is the ticket price overall, and lower maintenance costs help them achieve their desires. Before you freak, I am not saying I like it or agree, I am simply calling it like it is. There are a whole lot of players out their competing for our jobs. Groups like AMFA who are intend on dividing do not help.

You always sound defeated just like our Local TWU stooges always sound.

You keep expressing a defeatist mentality regarding outsourcing of work, and yet never express what you think the solution to that issue might be. Instead you keep using that expression as a form of fear as reason to not change to a craft union.

You keep harping against AMFA as being intent on dividing.

What you fail to understand is that the AMFA organizing drives at AA really do come from within the TWU membership here at AA. I have been involved from the start of the last two drives. It starts with TWU members tired of the concessions for jobs industrial unionism and a meeting of local AA AMT’s gets organized and scheduled and then a drive starts. You industrial unionist are so entrenched in your top down form of unionism that you cannot grasp the idea of grassroots movement. I was not abducted by some alien AMFA force and required to be involved in some drive. The solicitation for my involvement came directly from my co-workers. In contrast the Teamsters show up for two days at a hotel, take names and personal contact information and then claim they have a committee ready to organize. That's a crock of crap to believe in and you will soon find out that is not the case and you will fail here.

If you call me and my co-workers using the Federal Law allowing us to seek the representation of our choosing as being divisive, then have your powerful political lobby that you and the AFL-CIO unions claim to have and change the law as to take that right away, but please refrain from referring to those of us seeking change as some out-of-control entity trying to disrupt the profession. The United States of America in based on choice and the freedom to choose. But when it comes to choice in union representation, you call that dividing instead of freedom. I suppose given your way we would all be mandated into the Teamsters and the right to change Unions would be removed from the Railway Labor Act. But then who would you blame for for your own failures?

What happened at United Airlines was not the same as what happened at Northwest Airlines. What has happened at Southwest Airlines is in contrast to those and what may or may not happen here at American Airlines won’t be the same as any of those instances. We can and will build our own experience with AMFA once certified.

I am a Freedom loving American; I like to exercise my rights under Federal Law to initiate and cause a potential vote of the mechanic and related craft or class on union of choice. And I am getting tired of you referring to my willingness to be involved in that as some negative force coming from outside the membership of the union on the property. You can take you totalitarian and anti-freedom views, pack your bags and return to wherever you came. Return to where choice and freedom is viewed as a negative, but just please leave the Freedom Loving Union Members at American Airlines out of your continuous passion for communism.

 

[Anomaly]

IIRC, to repair an airline component (engine blade, indicator, etc...) requires an FAR 145 repair license.
Are all these repair stations MRO's? Technically yes, but only a few do HMV or much less in onesey/twosey type work.
JMHO&PO,
B) xUT

With all due respect, check your facts sir. Other than AA, there is nobody in the industry doing their own HMV's. Check out the annual reports for TIMCO, Aviation Technical Services, Air Transport Service Group, Aero Turbine Inc, Marana Aerospace Solutions (formerly Evergreen Maintenance Center), F and E Aircraft Maintenance, Aero Frame Services, AAR, Empire Aerospace, and ST Aerospace. Or better yet just google Aircraft Maintenance Repair and Overhaul. The results might shock you.

These are some of the larger ones and all do much more than your onesey/twosey type of work. And this is just a partial list.

 

[TWU informer]

With all due respect, check your facts sir. Other than AA, there is nobody in the industry doing their own HMV's. Check out the annual reports for TIMCO, Aviation Technical Services, Air Transport Service Group, Aero Turbine Inc, Marana Aerospace Solutions (formerly Evergreen Maintenance Center), F and E Aircraft Maintenance, Aero Frame Services, AAR, Empire Aerospace, and ST Aerospace. Or better yet just google Aircraft Maintenance Repair and Overhaul. The results might shock you.

These are some of the larger ones and all do much more than your onesey/twosey type of work. And this is just a partial list.

What is your solution to this problem?
Continue the concessions for jobs program of the industrial unionist so everyone can have a low paying union job doing the work others have outsourced?

Just great!

You always sound defeated just like our Local TWU stooges always sound.

You keep expressing a defeatist mentality regarding outsourcing of work, and yet never express what you think the solution to that issue might be. Instead you keep using that expression as a form of fear as reason to not change to a craft union.

You keep harping against AMFA as being intent on dividing.

What you fail to understand is that the AMFA organizing drives at AA really do come from within the TWU membership here at AA. I have been involved from the start of the last two drives. It starts with TWU members tired of the concessions for jobs industrial unionism and a meeting of local AA AMT’s gets organized and scheduled and then a drive starts. You industrial unionist are so entrenched in your top down form of unionism that you cannot grasp the idea of grassroots movement. I was not abducted by some alien AMFA force and required to be involved in some drive. The solicitation for my involvement came directly from my co-workers. In contrast the Teamsters show up for two days at a hotel, take names and personal contact information and then claim they have a committee ready to organize. That's a crock of crap to believe in and you will soon find out that is not the case and you will fail here.

If you call me and my co-workers using the Federal Law allowing us to seek the representation of our choosing as being divisive, then have your powerful political lobby that you and the AFL-CIO unions claim to have and change the law as to take that right away, but please refrain from referring to those of us seeking change as some out-of-control entity trying to disrupt the profession. The United States of America in based on choice and the freedom to choose. But when it comes to choice in union representation, you call that dividing instead of freedom. I suppose given your way we would all be mandated into the Teamsters and the right to change Unions would be removed from the Railway Labor Act. But then who would you blame for for your own failures?

What happened at United Airlines was not the same as what happened at Northwest Airlines. What has happened at Southwest Airlines is in contrast to those and what may or may not happen here at American Airlines won’t be the same as any of those instances. We can and will build our own experience with AMFA once certified.

I am a Freedom loving American; I like to exercise my rights under Federal Law to initiate and cause a potential vote of the mechanic and related craft or class on union of choice. And I am getting tired of you referring to my willingness to be involved in that as some negative force coming from outside the membership of the union on the property. You can take you totalitarian and anti-freedom views, pack your bags and return to wherever you came. Return to where choice and freedom is viewed as a negative, but just please leave the Freedom Loving Union Members at American Airlines out of your continuous passion for communism.

 

[Anomaly]

So lets get this straight you are Pro nobody but you are Anti AMFA and you want me to look up the McCormick advisory group but they have not worked with AMFA in years and owe by the way Dell retired and is no longer saleing real estate. I think you need to update your Anti Amfa info you seem to be living in 2003.

CIO is that you?

I was thinking, and since you mentioned it, are you sure AMFA is not in the real estate game any more? Check out their LM-2 filing with the Department of Labor before you make such a bold statement. It is not uncommon to invest members dues money into some type of investment fund. Before you go there, some have been somewhat eyebrow raising as we have all seen in the movie Hoffa. But none more risky than mortgage backed securities. According to AMFA, they have invested thousands upon thousands of dollars in to this risky venue. For years the association was able to skate by and survive using this risk, but since the housing market and banking crash many of these investments have become little more than worthless pieces of paper holding underwater properties. They may be able to buy their way out eventually, but until then, they could sure use a few thousand new members. Read for yourself here. http://www.dol.gov/ and then choose to bail them out if you want to.

The DOL web site is a complicated site, and it is a bit tricky getting to the LM-2's but if I could figure it out, I am sure you can too. One hint, AMFA does not go simply by AMFA. That would be too easy. You have to look up AIRCRAFT MECHANICS ASN IND.

 

[Anomaly]

What is your solution to this problem?
Continue the concessions for jobs program of the industrial unionist so everyone can have a low paying union job doing the work others have outsourced?

Just great!

You always sound defeated just like our Local TWU stooges always sound.

You keep expressing a defeatist mentality regarding outsourcing of work, and yet never express what you think the solution to that issue might be. Instead you keep using that expression as a form of fear as reason to not change to a craft union.

You keep harping against AMFA as being intent on dividing.

What you fail to understand is that the AMFA organizing drives at AA really do come from within the TWU membership here at AA. I have been involved from the start of the last two drives. It starts with TWU members tired of the concessions for jobs industrial unionism and a meeting of local AA AMT’s gets organized and scheduled and then a drive starts. You industrial unionist are so entrenched in your top down form of unionism that you cannot grasp the idea of grassroots movement. I was not abducted by some alien AMFA force and required to be involved in some drive. The solicitation for my involvement came directly from my co-workers. In contrast the Teamsters show up for two days at a hotel, take names and personal contact information and then claim they have a committee ready to organize. That's a crock of crap to believe in and you will soon find out that is not the case and you will fail here.

If you call me and my co-workers using the Federal Law allowing us to seek the representation of our choosing as being divisive, then have your powerful political lobby that you and the AFL-CIO unions claim to have and change the law as to take that right away, but please refrain from referring to those of us seeking change as some out-of-control entity trying to disrupt the profession. The United States of America in based on choice and the freedom to choose. But when it comes to choice in union representation, you call that dividing instead of freedom. I suppose given your way we would all be mandated into the Teamsters and the right to change Unions would be removed from the Railway Labor Act. But then who would you blame for for your own failures?

What happened at United Airlines was not the same as what happened at Northwest Airlines. What has happened at Southwest Airlines is in contrast to those and what may or may not happen here at American Airlines won’t be the same as any of those instances. We can and will build our own experience with AMFA once certified.

I am a Freedom loving American; I like to exercise my rights under Federal Law to initiate and cause a potential vote of the mechanic and related craft or class on union of choice. And I am getting tired of you referring to my willingness to be involved in that as some negative force coming from outside the membership of the union on the property. You can take you totalitarian and anti-freedom views, pack your bags and return to wherever you came. Return to where choice and freedom is viewed as a negative, but just please leave the Freedom Loving Union Members at American Airlines out of your continuous passion for communism.

And your friends call me the tool? I heard and gave that same soap box speech in the late 80's when I was collecting donations to begin another AMFA drive. We too were grass roots and funded the campaigns out of our own pockets. WE PAID FOR WHOLE THING including Delle's airfare and rooms. Without the internet back in those "old' days, there were plenty of people out there trying to dissuade my right to organize and free speech. At least at the time, that is the way I saw it. Any one who dared to post a flier (that's how we did it back then) contrary to my beliefs that AMFA was the solution for us was accused of going against the very grains of our countries founding fathers when they too began and lead a grass roots campaign to rid themselves of the imperial evils trying to control them.

Once again, blah di de blah blah blah. A great speech is not going to solve anything, and yours sir was a great speech. I have been there and done that too. What I do know, again from experience, is that an all aircraft maintenance Union, or at least a large number of mechanics in one Union is quite simply a GOOD IDEA. Maybe this is the solution you are looking for?

AMFA is nothing more than a bad implementation of a good idea.

 

[TWU informer]

I was thinking, and since you mentioned it, are you sure AMFA is not in the real estate game any more? Check out their LM-2 filing with the Department of Labor before you make such a bold statement. It is not uncommon to invest members dues money into some type of investment fund. Before you go there, some have been somewhat eyebrow raising as we have all seen in the movie Hoffa. But none more risky than mortgage backed securities. According to AMFA, they have invested thousands upon thousands of dollars in to this risky venue. For years the association was able to skate by and survive using this risk, but since the housing market and banking crash many of these investments have become little more than worthless pieces of paper holding underwater properties. They may be able to buy their way out eventually, but until then, they could sure use a few thousand new members. Read for yourself here. http://www.dol.gov/ and then choose to bail them out if you want to.

The DOL web site is a complicated site, and it is a bit tricky getting to the LM-2's but if I could figure it out, I am sure you can too. One hint, AMFA does not go simply by AMFA. That would be too easy. You have to look up AIRCRAFT MECHANICS ASN IND.

And meanwhile the TWU and the TEAMSTERS along with AFL-CIO invest millions from our paychecks into back stabbing politicians under the belief that our fight is in the political arena. Even though that once the Supreme Court ruled that money is considered "free speech" the politics is now for the money, by the money, and of the money.

Working folks will never have more money than the employers. So that investment is a sure to lose prospect.

Of course the elite leaders of the industrail unions and the AFL-CIO have not suffered the pay and benefit cuts, they still get their paid for automobiles and their annual raises. These out-of-touch leaders are leading us off the cliff while raking in the dough, and all you can do is try to hold the change to a craft union accountable, while you are getting raped, shafted, and left for the buzzards.

Stupid is ad Stupid Does.

 

[TWU informer]

And your friends call me the tool? I heard and gave that same soap box speech in the late 80's when I was collecting donations to begin another AMFA drive. We too were grass roots and funded the campaigns out of our own pockets. WE PAID FOR WHOLE THING including Delle's airfare and rooms. Without the internet back in those "old' days, there were plenty of people out there trying to dissuade my right to organize and free speech. At least at the time, that is the way I saw it. Any one who dared to post a flier (that's how we did it back then) contrary to my beliefs that AMFA was the solution for us was accused of going against the very grains of our countries founding fathers when they too began and lead a grass roots campaign to rid themselves of the imperial evils trying to control them.

Once again, blah di de blah blah blah. A great speech is not going to solve anything, and yours sir was a great speech. I have been there and done that too. What I do know, again from experience, is that an all aircraft maintenance Union, or at least a large number of mechanics in one Union is quite simply a GOOD IDEA. Maybe this is the solution you are looking for?

AMFA is nothing more than a bad implementation of a good idea.

Why do you continue to refuse to answer what your solution is?
Every post you make is full of hate and negative overtones, and yet you offer nothing as a solution and everytime you are asked, you fail to respond. You refuse to hold your current union accountable for our demise, you refuse to offer any solutions, in fact, you are nothing more than a disgruntled zealot trying to keep in tact what is failing you and everyone around you.

 

[Anomaly]

And meanwhile the TWU and the TEAMSTERS along with AFL-CIO invest millions from our paychecks into back stabbing politicians under the belief that our fight is in the political arena. Even though that once the Supreme Court ruled that money is considered "free speech" the politics is now for the money, by the money, and of the money.

Working folks will never have more money than the employers. So that investment is a sure to lose prospect.

Of course the elite leaders of the industrail unions and the AFL-CIO have not suffered the pay and benefit cuts, they still get their paid for automobiles and their annual raises. These out-of-touch leaders are leading us off the cliff while raking in the dough, and all you can do is try to hold the change to a craft union accountable, while you are getting raped, shafted, and left for the buzzards.

Stupid is ad Stupid Does.

Speaking of stupid, AMFA is doing the same thing using the internet lobby group Keys To The Capital, or are the called LobbyIt.com? I forget. Check the AMFA web site before throwing stones in glass houses.

 

[Anomaly]

Why do you continue to refuse to answer what your solution is?
Every post you make is full of hate and negative overtones, and yet you offer nothing as a solution and everytime you are asked, you fail to respond. You refuse to hold your current union accountable for our demise, you refuse to offer any solutions, in fact, you are nothing more than a disgruntled zealot trying to keep in tact what is failing you and everyone around you.

You asked once, and I responded. Again with the name calling. Really?

 

[aapitbull]

Mr Pit, or is it Bull? I am not sure what you are asking. You lost me. The point of my post is to display the overwhelming odds against ALL of us airline employed mechanics. The passengers main concern is the ticket price overall, and lower maintenance costs help them achieve their desires. Before you freak, I am not saying I like it or agree, I am simply calling it like it is. There are a whole lot of players out their competing for our jobs. Groups like AMFA who are intend on dividing do not help.

My point is simple, the teamsters show up to organize? divide us and suddenly you show up on the board and now it turns out you are from the teamsters but you claim your not pro anyone your just anti-AMFA. You start throwing numbers around about how many repair stations their are and telling us to look up Kevin McCormick that AMFA is a ant among giants and bla bla bla.{Fear and Smear}

So what is your solution, I am sure it want be long before you are telling us thay the great size and vast wealth of the teamsters is our best option, well I would point out that the APA and APFA are both ants among giants and have held their own for decades, in fact most people say the APA contract is the last of the great pilot contracts. So what happen to the giant ALPA thru the last decade as I said before you overlook all the beatings taken by the industrial unions and focus on what happened to AMFA 2003 to 2008 you even forget to thank NWA mechanics for the huge bump in pay that they brought to the industry.

Finally there is a drive to remove the teamsters and bring back AMFA at UAL so it is obvious that not everyone feels as you do,the vast majority of folks I know who are represented by AMFA or where at one time say while it is far from perfect it is honest and open they don't lie or do deals behind doors and if i does happen you can hold the person or persons accountable for their actions and that is not the case with the ibt,iam or twu

Finally let me save you the trouble NO THANKS I'm not interested in the ibt.

 

[aapitbull]

Speaking of stupid, AMFA is doing the same thing using the internet lobby group Keys To The Capital, or are the called LobbyIt.com? I forget. Check the AMFA web site before throwing stones in glass houses.

Yes but the ibt has a gazillion members and vast resources and AMFA is a ant and I believe Informers point was that you both are having the exact same effect.

So much for size!