A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[TWU informer]

Blaaa di de blaaa blaaa blaaa. Brother, you sound like too many ideologist who have simply lost their way during a fight. It is funny how you whine on and on about the Unions who have done nothing more than try to protect you, yet YOU say nothing about those very corporations who harm. No Vote - No Support, I beg you to tell me how exactly, or when AMFA has truly supported any member on the ropes. Just give me ONE example? They do not fight corporations period . Nor do they fight for their general membership. AMFA makes deals to protect whats left. Is that what you want? To protect yourself? In that case, my apologies sir, vote AMFA, save your own single self righteous hide. After all, that is what the association is all about. Protecting the few at the expense of ALL.

Actually AMFA supported myself and 6 others usiing Lee Seham quite well against American Airlines in a federal lawsuit because of lack of a neutrality. So you can go bark your pathetic lies elsewhere. You speak organizer jargon, I speak of FACTS!

The last thing I want is to have to join the Teamsters for a Democratic Union to attempt to force another industrial union to allow the members to have a voice in the direction of a Union.

I bet Chris Moore and Robert Fisher are appointed stooges like we have so many of in the TWU.

Looking forward to this fight and exposure of the failures of industrial catch all unions.

You complain about AMFA's high wage all call it at the expense of many, but you damn sure refuse to come and work for TWU paltry pay and benefits who has a low pay at the expense of all in the profession.

And TWU members are resigning right and left to go work at Southwest and be represented by that Craft Union of which you are so opposed.

How much are you getting paid to be an appointed stooge in an undemocratic brotherhood to come here and sell your attempt at a "TWU BAILOUT"?

 

[Ed Norton]

....or when AMFA has truly supported any member on the ropes. Just give me ONE example? They do not fight corporations period . Nor do they fight for their general membership....

Talk to Dan Cunningham. Ask him how Lee Seeham and AMFA got him his job back with full back pay after being out for a year and a half.
Why was Dan fired? Because some TWU Union rep cried to management about Dan wearing a slightly modified TWU "strong arm" t-shirt.

 

[Bob Owens]

I respectfully disagree that a company will keep work in house today. Companies shoot from the hip, and rely on accountants to make decisions. These numbers are not always in the best interest of the companies long term viability. Just ask any aircraft mechanic how often a bone head company decision to save money actually costs more in the long run. I believe for many years American and the leadership did it right. Unfortunately times have changed for AA, and they are turning towards the outsourcing direction of other airlines to "cut costs". Truly unfortunate, because vendors can not compete in reliability with in house workers. But with so many MRO's in this country, over 4000 at last count, and the chance to buy maintenance on the "cheap" it is a struggle for any of us in the airlines to keep our jobs. Our combined voices and strong experienced Union leadership do lend some help towards that fight.

4000 Aviation MROs just in this country? Please let us know where you got that number.

With only around 3000 A&Ps issued a year, and many of them to foreign students who will go back to where they came I find it hard to believe there are that many.

 

[swamt]

JMHO, IBT is TWU on steroids.
B) xUT

LMAO when I read this. 100% correct sir.

 

[whoop whoop]

LMAO when I read this. 100% correct sir.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I second that. But I will give the TWU credit on one thing.............

They did not SCAB NWA like the teamsters did and as far as I know they do not have SCABS in their upper echelon like the teamsters have hear at the new UAL and the old CAL!!

Basically, if you do not like the TWU, you will abhor the SCAB teamsters.

 

[1AA]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I second that. But I will give the TWU credit on one thing.............

They did not SCAB NWA like the teamsters did and as far as I know they do not have SCABS in their upper echelon like the teamsters have hear at the new UAL and the old CAL!!

Basically, if you do not like the TWU, you will abhor the SCAB teamsters.

Yes our TWU members did scab in some stations. I will not get into details but I have sources that told me after our guys went off the clock at AA they went over to NWA and scabbed for a few lousy extra $$. The scabbing was at smaller numbers at smaller stations but scabbing is scabbing.

 

[xUT]

Yes our TWU members did scab in some stations. I will not get into details but I have sources that told me after our guys went off the clock at AA they went over to NWA and scabbed for a few lousy extra $$. The scabbing was at smaller numbers at smaller stations but scabbing is scabbing.

Individuals scabbing is different than Union Sanctioned scabbing.
If the TWU knew about the scabs and turned a blind eye that would be sanctioned scabbing.
IBT flew on NWA during the strike, that's scabbing.
IIRC, when UA returned some leased 777's the TWU in Tulsa made a big deal about performing the return maintenance.
Technically, that's not scabbing either.
B) xUT

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Anomaly,

You don't work at AA, you have worked on a/c for 27 years and you defend the twu. You appear out of no where after the AMFA drive starts and CAN NOT explain why the twu international officers are appointed NOT elected by the membership. You CAN NOT explain why when the membership takes pay cuts twu international officers do not. You are a tool. You can only attempt to misdirect with half truths and lies. If you aren't working at AA why not identify yourself?

 

[1AA]

Individuals scabbing is different than Union Sanctioned scabbing.
If the TWU knew about the scabs and turned a blind eye that would be sanctioned scabbing.
IBT flew on NWA during the strike, that's scabbing.
IIRC, when UA returned some leased 777's the TWU in Tulsa made a big deal about performing the return maintenance.
Technically, that's not scabbing either.
B) xUT

Working on STRUCKED aircraft is SCABBING!
That is UNIONISM 101. Take your spin elsewhere.

Now back to the topic at hand.

 

[700UW]

Who represented the dispatchers at NW when AMFA was on strike?

And the TWU represented dispatchers went to work when we were on strike against US in 92.

IBT represented pilots flew replacement flights for NW at Champion Air.

 

[aapitbull]

I kicked the hornets nest..... : )

Hold on to those words "democracy", "more pay for more outsourcing". In the end, for those few that are left, spiritual AMFA fighting words are all that will be left. You will be standing there looking at the empty workstations wondering what happened. AMFA, and Unions created to cause dissent in the ranks, are not the answer. We can get in to the history of AMFA later. For now, Google the McCormick investment group and AMFA. At least take the time to research the group you want to rest your careers on, then we can get in to it all you want. Just in case you don't get it, I m not pro IBT, IAM, or TWU in this venue. Through experience, I have simply been changed to anti AMFA.

So lets get this straight you are Pro nobody but you are Anti AMFA and you want me to look up the McCormick advisory group but they have not worked with AMFA in years and owe by the way Dell retired and is no longer saleing real estate. I think you need to update your Anti Amfa info you seem to be living in 2003.

CIO is that you?

 

[Anomaly]

4000 Aviation MROs just in this country? Please let us know where you got that number.

With only around 3000 A&Ps issued a year, and many of them to foreign students who will go back to where they came I find it hard to believe there are that many.

You got me....I guesstimated and rounded down. This information is admittedly dated as it was released in NOV 2009. The statement was issued by The Honorable Calvin L. Scovel III Inspector General U.S. Department of Transportation. "Currently, there are 4,858 FAA-certificated repair stations, 4,126 of which are located in the United States. Since 1994, the number of FAA-certificated foreign repair stations has increased from 344 to 731."

But I should stress that these are just the certified repair stations and many non-certified repair shops do exist. This data also does not include the recent move by some of the larger MRO's to enter in to mergers. Unfortunately, as of today's date, I do not know the actual number so I went with 4K. You can find the link here
http://www.oig.dot.g...ns_11.18.09.pdf
or google for yourself the following phrase. Actions Needed To Improve Safety Oversight and Security at Aircraft Repair Stations

It is a lengthy but very interesting read.

 

[Anomaly]

Anomaly,

You don't work at AA, you have worked on a/c for 27 years and you defend the twu. You appear out of no where after the AMFA drive starts and CAN NOT explain why the twu international officers are appointed NOT elected by the membership. You CAN NOT explain why when the membership takes pay cuts twu international officers do not. You are a tool. You can only attempt to misdirect with half truths and lies. If you aren't working at AA why not identify yourself?

I have never been in the TWU, but I was in AMFA.

 

[Anomaly]

Bob Owens,

Here is a Memorandum in part issued Dec 16, 2010.

"In recent years, major U.S. airlines have steadily increased their use of contract repair stations to perform aircraft maintenance. Between 2000 and 2009, airlines increased their maintenance outsource spending by more than $1.1 billion. Forecasts show that the maintenance, repair, and overhaul industry will grow annually by 4.4 percent over the next 10 years, yielding a market value of between $50 billion to $65 billion for this segment of the aviation industry. These upward trends are expected to continue as airlines continue to cut maintenance costs and increase profitability."

You can find many more relative articles by visiting the DOT Office of Inspector General web page.

http://www.oig.dot.g...brary-item/5228

Scroll to the bottom and find related library items or go to the main page and research for yourself.

For many years I tried to get AMFA to get involved in the several debates surrounding the issues of increased MRO's. They refused to believe or even read the reports because it cut in to their go it alone philosophies. The association has truly put themselves in to a boxed corner as an ant in the world of giants. Their vision is an unrealistic one believing a small craft only Union can stop the swell of outsourcing. Their only recourse is in modifying agreements to give in and allow MRO's to do more and more work. But when do they stop? These reports of outsourcing are something that every other airline except AA has been dealing with increasingly since 2001. Unfortunately, it appears as you all are in the line of fire now just like the rest of us. I am truly sorry about that.

 

[FWAAA]

4000 Aviation MROs just in this country? Please let us know where you got that number.

With only around 3000 A&Ps issued a year, and many of them to foreign students who will go back to where they came I find it hard to believe there are that many.

The number of newly-minted A&P licenses is irrelevant to the number of certificated domestic MROs. More relevant would be the total number of license holders in the USA, and there are far more than 4,000. Didn't you previously post that the total number exceeds 100,000?

To be sure, the number of new A&P license holders probably isn't enough to replace those who retire, die or leave aviation to fix machines that don't fly, but that doesn't prove the number of licensed repair stations.

The TWU-supporter has provided the source for the 4,000+ number.