AFA Files Suit In Federal Court

[dapoes]

And finally, DL wants to paint the AFA as "stalling" so that f/a's will take their frustrations out on AFA, rather than mgt. Makes perfect tactical sense.

Actually AFA is stalling per admission: Excerpt from Salt Lake Tribune

A Salt Lake City-based flight attendant at Delta Air Lines is trying to help block the carrier from starting the process of combining the seniority lists of Delta and Northwest Airlines flight attendants until both groups can vote on union representation.

Marianne Bicksler, who lives in Park City, is the only Delta flight attendant to join a lawsuit filed Nov. 21 by the union that represents Northwest's 8,000 flight attendants.

Bicksler said she joined in order to delay the integration process until after President-elect Barack Obama takes office in January. She said the chance of getting a fair election to decide if Delta's 13,000 non-union attendants and Northwest's 8,000 unionized attendants will be represented by the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA is greater under a Democratic administration.

Current members of the governing body of the National Mediation Board, which oversees labor relations between unions and companies, were appointed by President George W. Bush.

"I hate to call it a stall tactic, but it's basically to get Delta to hold back the process.

Somehow they think that Obama will put ink to paper on the EFCA and make it easier for them. Chances of the EFCA ever seeing the light of day grows dimmer as the Washington and the populous are now skeptical of any pro-union legislation after the whole GM-UAW debacle. What the AFA has done equates to shooting themselves in the foot, further insuring losing the entire DAL/NWA workforce (union dues).

 

[DLSam]

I would have thought that the smartest (tactical) thing that Delta or AFA could do is to post a side by side comparison (much like the pilots did before they went into arbitration) of what doh actually means to each of the f/a groups (as a group and individually).

I'll be honest, for myself, and I suspect many many others just like me, having my overall percentage (relative seniority) change drastically with a doh scenario will never get me to vote for the union.

However, if doh is within just a few percentage points either way, then I'll accept that and make my peace with having a union on property (if that should happen).

I would have thought that at least AFA would have done a better job about posting (exposing) side by side comparisons as it could potentially benefit them for (DL) f/a's to have this information (unless doh really does benefit pre-merger NW f/a's??)

I had a interesting conversation with a DL pilot on a layover who told me that based on doh comparisons that both sides did, his relative seniority fell by 11 percent. The no.1 pilot would have been a DL guy, then the next 20 NW, then the current no.2 at DL would have been no.22 overall.

Which brings me to my point...in my opinion, DOH is not so simple. I believe that one group should not benefit over the other (which is in ALPA's bylaws, not automatic Doh), and until we all know where we stand no one should be voting one way or another for a union.

 

[dapoes]

Strangely enough, AFA in the past has been against DOH but now suddenly is for it???

 

[RobertD]

I would have thought that at least AFA would have done a better job about posting (exposing) side by side comparisons as it could potentially benefit them for (DL) f/a's to have this information (unless doh really does benefit pre-merger NW f/a's??)

The AFA would need the list of f/a's and DOH from Delta in order to do a comparison.
Was the AFA supplied this information? Just wondering...

Which brings me to my point...in my opinion, DOH is not so simple. I believe that one group should not benefit over the other (which is in ALPA's bylaws, not automatic Doh), and until we all know where we stand no one should be voting one way or another for a union.

DOH is DOH, the companies have merged and are one (almost). Why should someone working longer then another be placed behind the person with less time on the books? Just a reminder, you are not pilots...

good luck to all

 

[jimntx]

DOH is DOH, the companies have merged and are one (almost). Why should someone working longer then another be placed behind the person with less time on the books? Just a reminder, you are not pilots...

It is this attitude, usually expressed by the group that would gain the most from straight DOH, that keeps DL f/as from voting for union representation. If the DOH FOREVER people would be a little more flexible--Relative seniority, for instance--they might succeed with a representation election at DL.

I have a friend who is a senior f/a at DL. She is very concerned about the possibility of NW f/as who are more senior than she coming to ATL and taking the trips she likes to fly. Since she has 30+ years, no she can not wait to "bubble up" to those trips again. And, until that issue is resolved, she intends to continue voting against union representation.

 

[BABABOOY]

The AFA would need the list of f/a's and DOH from Delta in order to do a comparison.
Was the AFA supplied this information? Just wondering...
good luck to all

They (AFA) have been invited to sit down with their Delta counterparts to go
over the list and begin talking. They refused and filed the lawsuit.

 

[BABABOOY]

Evidently on the NW side their is a bit of frustration.
One issue is that We at Delta got to vote on a 14 member panel comprised of our peers. AFA represented NWA flight attendants get TWO members for the seniority integration committee. These two were picked by the MEC and never voted on by the afa membership.. Also some Flight Attendants are struggling to find trips to fly as a result of their new bidding system. Some have approached the AFA and asked them to meet with the company to uncap trades. AFA response was, we do not want flight attendants forced to fly hundreds of hours and have unsafe exhausted flight attendants, we are fighting for higher pay

 

[Wings]

The Employee Free Choice Act (EMFCA) has absolutely nothing to do with the upcoming union elections at the 'new' Delta .... airline (and railroad) employees are governed by the Railway Labor Act (RLA).

The rest of the unionized employees in this country are governed by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) - this is where the EMFCA comes into play.

So, to be clear - AFA's recent lawsuit against Delta regarding the seniority integration has nothing to do with getting this law passed ....

If you want to surmise that AFA hopes Obama will appoint a more 'labor friendly' member to the National Mediation Board - that is fair. After all, we have a right to conduct union elections free of interference and coercion and DAL has violated that premise each and every time an election has been held. Unfortunately, the make-up of the present board didn't see it that way (in the May 2008 AFA election, 1 NMB felt interference took place and the other 2 disagreed).

 

[Wings]

Strangely enough, AFA in the past has been against DOH but now suddenly is for it???

I don't know where you got the kind of information ....

AFA adopted their National Policy of "DATE OF HIRE" seniority integration right after the merger between Republic Airlines and Northwest in 1986. So, your characterization that they are now suddenly 'for it' is off the mark (20+ years).

 

[Wings]

Evidently on the NW side their is a bit of frustration.
One issue is that We at Delta got to vote on a 14 member panel comprised of our peers. AFA represented NWA flight attendants get TWO members for the seniority integration committee. These two were picked by the MEC and never voted on by the afa membership.. Also some Flight Attendants are struggling to find trips to fly as a result of their new bidding system. Some have approached the AFA and asked them to meet with the company to uncap trades. AFA response was, we do not want flight attendants forced to fly hundreds of hours and have unsafe exhausted flight attendants, we are fighting for higher pay

Care to provide proof?

NWAAFA and AFA-CWA have never communicated this to the NWA FAs ....

In addition, I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "Some have approached the AFA and asked them to meet with the company to uncap trades".

Under our current contract - we can drop to zero Or pick up trips (with no cap on the amount of hours flown in a month). In other words, a FA doesn't want to fly anything - they have the ability to do that. Another FA wants to fly upwards of 150 hours - they have the ability to do that as well.

 

[Dignity]

She is very concerned about the possibility of NW f/as who are more senior than she coming to ATL and taking the trips she likes to fly. Since she has 30+ years, no she can not wait to "bubble up" to those trips again.

That is not a sound reason to deny seniority(under any circumstance). why would a 40+ year employee have to lose seniority to make her happy?

 

[Dignity]

I'll be honest, for myself, and I suspect many many others just like me, having my overall percentage (relative seniority) change drastically with a doh

we are a much more junior group today with the retirements and buyouts....(you are aware of that?)

 

[Dignity]

Under our current contract - we can drop to zero Or pick up trips (with no cap on the amount of hours flown in a month). In other words, a FA doesn't want to fly anything - they have the ability to do that. Another FA wants to fly upwards of 150 hours - they have the ability to do that as well.

exactly.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

A few things:

Dapoes--you're kidding about AFA "all of a sudden" being for DOH, right? Really--you should do more research before you post. That's been in their by-laws for a long time. This posting of yours proves, once and for all (if there was ever any doubt), that you are a company idealogue rather than a free-thinker.

JimTX--after 30+ years, your friend surely understands the nature of this industry, right? She's not so naive to have believed that this day wouldn't come (a large merger). I've been through the WA merger and PA route acquisition and had FAs bumped me down on bids, including vacation bids. That's the nature of the industry. I was not part of the top 3,000 DL f/a's in 1991 that were protected from PA placement.
I think your friend will 'roll with it' and be ok in the long run.

Speaking of naivetee---I DO admire Marianne Bicksler for having the courage to stand up for her convictions, as well as her tenacity-- but WHY in the world, if she was going to speak to the press, did she use the term "stall tactic"?. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the AFA, in this situation, to wait for an Obama Admin. and a replacement of Read Van DeWater of the NMB. Delta has enjoyed a Republican-controlled NMB in the last 2 AFA elections and it's worked to their favor. Why wouldn't AFA want to better position themselves after the last 8 years? I understand that, but it was naive of her to blurt it out in an interview. She should have stayed on message, per their last newsletter and said "What's the rush?" I think because most DL f/a's haven't been in a union (or haven't been in one in a very long time--PA, WA), many are naive about the politics involved and how everything that is said could possibly be used against them if they haven't thought it through. (Think of our recent Presidential race.) It's understandable and again, I admire her determination and hard work. What's beyond me, is that experienced AFA leadership isn't guiding them more in these types of situations.

 

[DLSam]

we are a much more junior group today with the retirements and buyouts....(you are aware of that?)

Hi Dignity,

Unfortunately, the only people who have made me "aware" of the NW f/a's group being more jr are....NW f/a's! I haven't heard or seen any proof of this from AFA or Delta for that matter.

The one Delta person who had access to both lists during the last election that I was able to communicate with did gave me my "numbers" and pretty much cemented my decision to vote against AFA.

If this is the case (NW being more jr), then why would NW f/a's be so set about DOH? Wouldn't your more "jr" status affect your group much more than ours?. If the DL f/a's are saying that "relative seniority " or something else other than DOH should be at least look at, then why would NW not want that as well...they being so much "jr" and all?!!

The only way to get this resolved is to get both sides to the table, and soon. Lets see where we all fall, and then go from there. Delta is readily admitting that DOH might be the way to go, but until both sides get to the table we won't know that.

If indeed the NW f/a's are more jr, then why the AFA lawsuit? Why the implication that doing the integration process first (before a joint vote) will cause DL f/a's to vote against AFA?