AFA Files Suit In Federal Court

[Dignity]

Dapoes,

Thank you for the link to the article...

It appears her comment is a personal opinion.

Just as my personal opinion, it is a "mistake" not to continue with integration meetings(as I believe representation and seniority are two separate issues).

 

[jalbalpa]

The IFS Seniority Integration Committee is proud to have been elected by our peers to represent their interests in the seniority integration of the Delta and Northwest flight attendant seniority lists ...

I am not sure how much everyone really knows of how this election really went. Lets shed some light

There were 1900 names on the ballots, out of 13500. Roughly 14%.
The list of 1900 names included retired employees, and employees not wanting to be included on the ballot. This election was diluted purposely by Delta management, even after requests by dozens of people on the ballot to be removed from that list.

Lets also point out that out of 13500 people, according to Delta only 3000 cast votes. A measly 22% voter turount.

I would hardly call this a fair election, its about as fair as the last AFA election.


Now to the second part.

What management won't tell you is that after 20 days of negotiating Delta can send the seniority issue to arbitration. Looking out for flight attendants best interest? Or just trying to discourage flight attendants from voting in AFA?

Please remember that the "new" Delta, has a large chunk of old Northwest management. Lets look at the new IFS leadership team.

North Region Director - Britt Reller (NW)
BOS director - Andrea Misserian (NW)
DTW director - Deb Hanson (NW), 1 open position
NYC director - MaryAnn McCruden(DL), Kathy Ralston (DL), Ron Wolfe(DL)

Southwest Region Director - David Clayton (DL)
ATL director - Raul Alvarez(DL), Fred Jones(DL), Beth Trebendis(DL), Robert Waples(DL), Gail Cummings(NW)
MCO/TPA/FLL director - OPEN
MEM director - Maureen Nyquist(NW)

West Region director - Maureen Mariano(DL)
HNL director - Ben Mathieu(NW)
LAX director - Bobbie Bell(NW)
MSP director - Dana Bartel(DL), Deb Mozell(NW)
SEA director - Janice Fawcett(NW)
SFO director - Brian Boudreau(NW)
SLC/SAN director - Nancy Crook(DL)

Pacific Region director - Nancy Crook(NW)
General Manager IFS Scheduling Support - Brian Moreau(NW)

Northwest = 12
Delta = 12 (With DL having 4 in ATL and 3 in NYC)

 

[Dignity]

Hi Dignity

Hi there

If this is the case (NW being more jr), then why would NW f/a's be so set about DOH? Wouldn't your more "jr" status affect your group much more than ours?.If the DL f/a's are saying that "relative seniority " or something else other than DOH should be at least look at, then why would NW not want that as well...they being so much "jr"

DLSam, my opinion, its a matter of doing the right thing. It is not right to be placed on a combined list anywhere other than the first day of training in a job classification(in my opinion company transfers should keep their original hire date for vacation, non rev, ext. but the date transferred to Inflight is the date they should be on the list for bidding purposes).

Being a much smaller group more than likely our relative seniority will not be the same. But that is not reason enough to be placed in a seniority group(more senior) ahead of someone who has years more seniority accrued. Long term it may cause many problems and it is just not right.(it feels like it would be selfish and thinking of only yourself... and I was not raised that way.. personally I am not comfortable with ratio placements, creative integration ideas.. mind you this is just my opinion)

There should be meetings representing both groups to resolve this situation(which I hope will occur soon)

I hope you have a nice day.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Dapoes,

Thank you for the link to the article...

It appears her comment is a personal opinion.

Just as my personal opinion, it is a "mistake" not to continue with integration meetings(as I believe representation and seniority are two separate issues).

Dignity, I understand where you're coming from and they are two separate issues. But...in this situation, they are not mutually exclusive. You have to get into the mindset of how some DL f/a's think. And this is just my opinion based on working here, but many DL f/a's have a strong"what's-in-it-for-me?" attitude. I think that's been evidenced by many of the postings here (DLSam, Cooper, and JimTx's friend). My personal opinion is that while Delta promotes teamwork and everybody helping each other out to get the job done, they have never promoted a sense of unity within the f/a ranks (think UNIty and UNIon). If unity is promoted by Delta, it's always the entire company against outside forces (hostile take-overs, oil speculators, etc..)

You come from a strong union background where standing together and fairness is important. Some DL f/a's also feel this way, but many do not as it has not been part of the corporate culture. Seniority being the single most important issue for f/a's, I think you could very possibly see f/a's on each side of the representation issue toss out all the other aspects of their job in order to defend and/or improve their relative seniority. I'm not saying all DL f/a's by any means and for the most part, we are a great group of people to work with, but you just have to understand some differences between the two cultures.
Again, this is just my opinion.

 

[Dignity]

I think you could very possibly see f/a's on each side of the representation issue toss out all the other aspects of their job in order to defend and/or improve their relative seniority.

I agree with defending seniority by protecting actual accrued seniority regarding both groups.
I do not agree with improving relative seniority by attempting to disadvantage another group by not respecting D.O.H.

 

[BABABOOY]

Some others:

Mary Oakes Cook --General Manager – IFS Crew Resources DELTA

Theresa Sexton -- General Manager – IFS Scheduling Operations DELTA

Ann Yamamoto General Manager – IFS Administrative Services effective January 1, 2009. , Ann will also continue in her role as project manager for In-Flight Service integration initiatives. DELTA


Brian Moreau will join the Ops and Planning team as General Manager- IFS Scheduling Support once the Single Operating Certificate has been obtained and integration is completed. NW


Julie Godoy --Director – IFS Learning. DELTA

Kevin Scott is being promoted to General Manager – IFS Strategic Training. DELTA

Michelle Farkas --General Manager – AQP (Advanced Qualification Program). DELTA

Also
Joanne Smith- Senior VP of Inflight
David Watson, Managing Director - IFS Operations and Planning
Sandy Gordon VP field operations

 

[Dignity]

Dignity, I understand where you're coming from and they are two separate issues. But...in this situation, they are not mutually exclusive. You have to get into the mindset of how some DL f/a's think. And this is just my opinion based on working here, but many DL f/a's have a strong"what's-in-it-for-me?" attitude.

as passengers come from around the world, Flight Attendants *must* have an open mind, a sense of fairness, and an attempt to treat all people(future co-workers) as equals.

I believe that "what's-in-it-for-me" attitude is present everywhere...thats life.. that can also, unfortunately present itself as a bad attitude as well...its that "me-me-me" thinking that should never be present especially in the workplace.

Attitude is probably going to be one of the biggest determining factors for future success....

"Attitude will determine altitude in our careers and potential success for the new company"..

Lets work together.

 

[jalbalpa]

Its a little hard to get the word out when DL will not release the seniority list...

But, here is your answer, I broke it down in 10% tiers for you. Just like when you put in your bids in CBS.

TIER DELTA NORTHWEST

10% 1976 1977
20% 1979 1981
30% 1983 1985
40% 1985 1988
50% 1989 1990
60% 1991 1992
70% 1997 1996
80% 1999 1999
90% 2007 2007


You tell me which looks more senior.

 

[Wings]

Hi Dignity,

Unfortunately, the only people who have made me "aware" of the NW f/a's group being more jr are....NW f/a's! I haven't heard or seen any proof of this from AFA or Delta for that matter.

The one Delta person who had access to both lists during the last election that I was able to communicate with did gave me my "numbers" and pretty much cemented my decision to vote against AFA.

If this is the case (NW being more jr), then why would NW f/a's be so set about DOH? Wouldn't your more "jr" status affect your group much more than ours?. If the DL f/a's are saying that "relative seniority " or something else other than DOH should be at least look at, then why would NW not want that as well...they being so much "jr" and all?!!

The only way to get this resolved is to get both sides to the table, and soon. Lets see where we all fall, and then go from there. Delta is readily admitting that DOH might be the way to go, but until both sides get to the table we won't know that.

If indeed the NW f/a's are more jr, then why the AFA lawsuit? Why the implication that doing the integration process first (before a joint vote) will cause DL f/a's to vote against AFA?

The reason why NWA FAs advocate for DATE OF HIRE is because it is the fairest method of integrating a seniority list ....

No one should think they have the right to move above someone else just because a merger has taken place. The DAL FAs who seem to think they deserve a leg up on NWA because DAL bought them - perhaps they should read some financial articles on the merger. DAL had 3X the debt as NWA and that debt (NOLs) needed to be transferred to the new carrier. NWA could have just as easily been the name of the new global airline - this is all about the best 'financial' arrangement possible. Not branding, who has the best customer service, etc.

And even if the name of the new global airline was NWA .... NWA FAs would still advocate for DATE OF HIRE. We learned a lesson with the Republic merger in 1986. If you don't want hard feelings for 20-30 years down the road - you need to recognize that advancing your own desires at the expense of the good of the whole group is selfish and destructive.

To many DAL FAs - the only thing on their minds right now is seniority integration. If that issue were to move off the table and into the hands of an arbitrator before the election, some won't pay attention or participate in the election. That is one of the reasons why the DAL Leadership Team is pushing to get this settled now (and before Obama takes office). They will do whatever they can to make sure there is no FA union at the 'new' Delta ....

 

[Dignity]

If that issue were to move off the table and into the hands of an arbitrator before the election, some won't pay attention or participate in the election.

I do not necessarily agree with that comment. I would like to think that most people are adults and are thinking with an adult mind and comprehend, "global recession" especially when our country is in a financial mess ..capacity cuts around the corner... and why "having it in writing" is probably a good thing.. especially how serious the condition of the economy is at this time and fore-see-able future.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

The reason why NWA FAs advocate for DATE OF HIRE is because it is the fairest method of integrating a seniority list ....

No one should think they have the right to move above someone else just because a merger has taken place. The DAL FAs who seem to think they deserve a leg up on NWA because DAL bought them - perhaps they should read some financial articles on the merger. DAL had 3X the debt as NWA and that debt (NOLs) needed to be transferred to the new carrier. NWA could have just as easily been the name of the new global airline - this is all about the best 'financial' arrangement possible. Not branding, who has the best customer service, etc.

And even if the name of the new global airline was NWA .... NWA FAs would still advocate for DATE OF HIRE. We learned a lesson with the Republic merger in 1986. If you don't want hard feelings for 20-30 years down the road - you need to recognize that advancing your own desires at the expense of the good of the whole group is selfish and destructive.

To many DAL FAs - the only thing on their minds right now is seniority integration. If that issue were to move off the table and into the hands of an arbitrator before the election, some won't pay attention or participate in the election. That is one of the reasons why the DAL Leadership Team is pushing to get this settled now (and before Obama takes office). They will do whatever they can to make sure there is no FA union at the 'new' Delta ....

Great post, Wings. But let me ask you this: If the seniority issue goes to an arbitrator, does his/her ruling supercede AFA's DOH by-laws? Or if AFA is voted in, is his/her decision stuck down and seniority then becomes DOH?

 

[BABABOOY]

From what I see, The "Post Merger" Delta f/a's have already had their
say on the Seniority issue. DOH.
However, Pre merger Delta f/a's were not part of that process.
I belive that many "Pre Merger" Delta f/a's
want is a say. A voice. Let it play out. Let the 13,000 + have a voice.
Sit, talk and then move on. It could very well be DOH. But we won't know
until we sit down with one another.

 

[DLSam]

Great post, Wings. But let me ask you this: If the seniority issue goes to an arbitrator, does his/her ruling supercede AFA's DOH by-laws? Or if AFA is voted in, is his/her decision stuck down and seniority then becomes DOH?

Hi Luke,

That is a great question and something I've also been wondering about. Is it part of the new mohawk-allegheny law that has not been tested yet, or is it clearly spelled out as part of that ruling?

Do you happen (or anyone) to know the answer to these questions...?

Is AFA is the only union with a strict DOH bylaws?
What rules do AFA have in place in case of a merger with non-afa unions?
What rules do AFA have in place in case of a merger with a non-union airline?
What do other unions have (doh etc) when it comes to potential intergration?

Thanks!

 

[DLSam]

Its a little hard to get the word out when DL will not release the seniority list...

But, here is your answer, I broke it down in 10% tiers for you. Just like when you put in your bids in CBS.

TIER DELTA NORTHWEST

10% 1976 1977
20% 1979 1981
30% 1983 1985
40% 1985 1988
50% 1989 1990
60% 1991 1992
70% 1997 1996
80% 1999 1999
90% 2007 2007



You tell me which looks more senior.

I'll be honest, it looks very close in seniority to me based on the 10% tier method (although what is happening within each 10% tier absolutely matters as well!!).

And, if that is the case, then why did AFA file the lawsuit? Why not let both sides come to the table, since DOH looks like a fair option (based on the above chart) and something that Delta has said repeatedly that its open to?

I'm with Dignity, no matter what both sides should begin the talking. To delay only prolongs the suspense, and allows suspicion and rumors to take control.

 

[BABABOOY]

AMFA meets with their Delta counterparts earlier this week

The group discussed a process for integrating the seniority of the combined group. This first meeting consisted of introductions, review of policies and procedures and how they related to seniority, as well as the Delta TechOps MRO strategy.