Maybe, from what I have heard, probably not. It seems that Eagle has a reset in their contract to make sure their pay is the average of certain regional carriers. Which means it can go down. Eagle pilots aren't too happy about that. Not sure who they use for comparators, but that makes it seem to me that they should remain "in the middle " of the pack for the forseeable future. Does anyone know how long this contract was for? Not the 18 year or what ever it was before is it?
American Air to increase regional fleet
- Thread starter usa1
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I don't recall the duration of the new agreements but other than Eagle, Piedmont and maybe another wholly-owned regional at US, no other legacy owns any of their regional feed anymore. Over the long-term, the plan may be to slowly downsize Eagle by outsourcing to Republic and others and then just shutting it down, ala Comair.
Maybe so, if they can continue to receive good quality from Eagle at low rates, then they should stay. They need turnover to help their employee costs. I have always been surprised at how many make Eagle a career. Great that the enjoy it and it pays the bills, I just always assumed people used the regionals as a stepping stone and Eagle seems more a destination for many. Now that the big boys are hiring again, Eagles costs should lower enough to help them remain in business.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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DL will own Pinnacle again once Pinnacle emerges from BK - but DL has built in several mechanisms to helps ensure that Pinnacle is a low cost RJ operator - and also has put similar clauses in its contracts w/ other regional carriers.
I'm not at all convinced that AA can count on getting decent quality from AE when those employees have lived their entire careers - and the culture of the company - has been built around being a fairly high cost airline w/ exclusive arrangements w/ AA.
They now are going to be just like every other regional carrier in terms of the need to keep costs down.
That is a dramatic shift in the culture of how AE has operated; it will take a very long time to rid that culture and mindset.
Sometimes w/ cultural changes that dramatic, it is easier to just shut down a subsidiary and start over w/ another option.
I'm not at all convinced that AA can count on getting decent quality from AE when those employees have lived their entire careers - and the culture of the company - has been built around being a fairly high cost airline w/ exclusive arrangements w/ AA.
They now are going to be just like every other regional carrier in terms of the need to keep costs down.
That is a dramatic shift in the culture of how AE has operated; it will take a very long time to rid that culture and mindset.
Sometimes w/ cultural changes that dramatic, it is easier to just shut down a subsidiary and start over w/ another option.
Looking through the objections filed by ALPA and AFA, they signed 8 year contracts with Eagle in late 2012. Dunno about TWU as their objection was very concise compared to the others.
WT: Thanks, I had forgotten about Pinnacle.
Kev3188
Veteran
The mechanics also have an 8 year agreement with the pay adjusted at the 4 year mark. The pay will be the average of the two lowest paid regionals out there of comparable size. So unless there are only three regionals we won't even be middle of the pack.
The RAH court filing apparently spelled out that MQ will retain the majority of the feed for AA. For whatever that's worth.
The RAH court filing apparently spelled out that MQ will retain the majority of the feed for AA. For whatever that's worth.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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uh, no.
Apparently you haven't noticed that some airlines have managed to break their people such that they never do for the company what they once were willing to do.
The vast majority of AA/AE people on this forum are AA employees - but I read day after day comments from them saying that they are not going to give to the company what they once did.
I don't think it is a great stretch to think that there are AE employees who feel the same way.
Apparently you haven't noticed that some airlines have managed to break their people such that they never do for the company what they once were willing to do.
The vast majority of AA/AE people on this forum are AA employees - but I read day after day comments from them saying that they are not going to give to the company what they once did.
I don't think it is a great stretch to think that there are AE employees who feel the same way.
Your post sounded to me like we were all fat dumb and comfy. The reality was that we were constantly threatened with our jobs being outsourced if we didn't keep our numbers up. It was the game they played pre 1997 among the individual owned Eagles. Since then they threatened us with Skywest, Chautauqua, etc. Now they are bringing them in. That's fine. I know that game.
I took the "high cost" comment as we are the most highly compensated regional out there and we will have to tighten our belts to compete. I have heard that too from management. The reality is that we are the lowest paid mechanics on the airfield and we share it with Skywest, Expressjet, TSA, and all the other " low cost " guys. I know this as a fact because we all come and go from each others hangars borrowing parts and tooling. I had one guy at Skywest literally laugh at what I made. I'm high cost? KMA. BTW, he was making more than me at year seven. I have over twenty years.
Yea they may slowdown at A/A. At Eagle they just quit. If there is a performance hit because of our department it is because the last forty new hires in our station have never touched an airplane before. I know that at least 10% of the remaining guys have firm job offers at other places too. Count them as gone.
Me and a couple other guys are going to stick it out. We have an emotional involvement as we started out with the airline when it had forty planes and only ten of them were pressurized. Those were the good times. Before DFW was the center of the universe.
BTW, we still have the work ethic we had before. I have friends and family that fly on the aircraft I work on. I'm not going to screw them because I am pissy. If it becomes too much , I will join the exodus.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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I'd expect wife-swapping to take place before a shutdown. There's a regional who is trying to sell off a big jet subsidiary, and a big jet airline trying to sell off a regional subsidiary, and rumor has it they've had some discussions........
Now you've done it.
Instead of visions of living next door to a super model, I realize I work for AA and now all I hear is banjo music in my head.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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Fix,
no, I was not saying AE employees did not have a work ethic....the history of the US airline industry shows that many, many employees gave their best even after taking pay cuts for years on end until the day the company was shut down.
But it also doesn't change that with good reason people lose the motivation to go above and beyond and there were truly people who believed in their company - not just airlines - to go above and beyond for years. Now that many companies have broken the unwritten contract of loyalty between employees and the employer, few Americans will do things like that - w/o expecting something in return, likely of a financial nature.
AE just like AA has become a high cost airline not because its people have high salaries but because they have not grown and higher seniority employees have not left in large enough numbers to be replaced by lower seniority and lower paid employees.
E,
It wouldn't surprise me if AA and Republic/Frontier are talking... and there is a lot of potential fit. My question is what is the strategic benefit to AA of eliminating a competitor to UA and WN at DEN? AA certainly can't afford to subsidize the continual 3 way fight there. If AA and Republic do something together, I certainly hope there is strategic consideration given to ensuring that AA doesn't help provide ammunition to UA and WN (improved profitability at DEN) that they can then use on AA.
thoughts?
no, I was not saying AE employees did not have a work ethic....the history of the US airline industry shows that many, many employees gave their best even after taking pay cuts for years on end until the day the company was shut down.
But it also doesn't change that with good reason people lose the motivation to go above and beyond and there were truly people who believed in their company - not just airlines - to go above and beyond for years. Now that many companies have broken the unwritten contract of loyalty between employees and the employer, few Americans will do things like that - w/o expecting something in return, likely of a financial nature.
AE just like AA has become a high cost airline not because its people have high salaries but because they have not grown and higher seniority employees have not left in large enough numbers to be replaced by lower seniority and lower paid employees.
E,
It wouldn't surprise me if AA and Republic/Frontier are talking... and there is a lot of potential fit. My question is what is the strategic benefit to AA of eliminating a competitor to UA and WN at DEN? AA certainly can't afford to subsidize the continual 3 way fight there. If AA and Republic do something together, I certainly hope there is strategic consideration given to ensuring that AA doesn't help provide ammunition to UA and WN (improved profitability at DEN) that they can then use on AA.
thoughts?
I love comments along the lines of "AA would NEVER do (fill in the blank)"; "DL CAN'T do (whatever their about to do)." AMR would shut down AE in a New York minute if it resulted in an extra bonus to TH and company. And, since Republic could have bought AE a year or two ago when AMR first put it on the market, what makes anyone think that they are interested in buying it now? Unless, AMR has decided to accept a fire sale offer price for AE.
WT, I agree with you. Why ever would AMR want to buy into the losing position at DEN? Frontier just does not have the bulk to compete with both WN and UA. And, WN has made clear that DEN is important to them. (Wait until the WA expires next year. Even AMR is going to get bit by the DAL-DEN service.) But then, there are any number of AMR executive moves over the past few years that would beg a similar question. One is always on thin ice when you attempt to apply logic to the decisions of AMR management. In fact, I believe it's a Rule 32 violation right up there with overt discrimination, racism and talking dirty on the job.
One of my closest friends flies for Frontier. I wish her and them the best, but the reality is that they are losing ground in DEN and across the nation. Just for instance, I saw (I think on here) that they are dropping DEN-PHL service and are going to fly into Trenton, NJ instead! Trenton? Really?
And, Republic's management of Frontier has managed to take a pretty good little airline and anger most or all of the employees, a la Tom Horton and company here at AMR. What a recipe for success!
WT, I agree with you. Why ever would AMR want to buy into the losing position at DEN? Frontier just does not have the bulk to compete with both WN and UA. And, WN has made clear that DEN is important to them. (Wait until the WA expires next year. Even AMR is going to get bit by the DAL-DEN service.) But then, there are any number of AMR executive moves over the past few years that would beg a similar question. One is always on thin ice when you attempt to apply logic to the decisions of AMR management. In fact, I believe it's a Rule 32 violation right up there with overt discrimination, racism and talking dirty on the job.
One of my closest friends flies for Frontier. I wish her and them the best, but the reality is that they are losing ground in DEN and across the nation. Just for instance, I saw (I think on here) that they are dropping DEN-PHL service and are going to fly into Trenton, NJ instead! Trenton? Really?
And, Republic's management of Frontier has managed to take a pretty good little airline and anger most or all of the employees, a la Tom Horton and company here at AMR. What a recipe for success!
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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TTN is actually an interesting niche market. A lot like HPN -- not a lot of room for competition, sitting in an high-middle income area, minutes from Princeton, and with lots of corporate HDQ's nearby who might think twice about flying out of EWR. Potentially very high yield if it were linked into a decent network.
If buying Eagle ensured a long-term contract with AA, there might be enough incentive for Republic to take them on.
Looking at the other half of the transaction, I'm sure AMR could find a place other than DEN to put 40 or so A319's being flown by F9. If nothing else, it would help accelerate the MD80 retirements.
If buying Eagle ensured a long-term contract with AA, there might be enough incentive for Republic to take them on.
Looking at the other half of the transaction, I'm sure AMR could find a place other than DEN to put 40 or so A319's being flown by F9. If nothing else, it would help accelerate the MD80 retirements.
